Help! I'm in a slump about pie crusts, literally

[Jenise]

I'm definitely out of my element when baking, but I know enough to (usually) diagnose my way out of problems, but blinding pie crusts has me baffled.

I make a great pie crust. My doughs are technically excellent--beautiful, elastic and multi-layered, and they roll out like a dream. And I love that part, love to roll and shape and flute the edges of a pie, and I even sometimes decorate the rims or upper crusts, when that applies, with artful little shapes I cut out free form with a paring knife. As long as I fill and bake the crust then and there, the pies look wonderful.

But due to a discussion on this board a few years ago, I recognized that my pumpkin pie crusts never seemed as fully cooked as I'd like due to the heavy moisture content of the filling, and so I started pre-baking (blinding) the pie crusts, which is definitely the improvement I was looking for except that I can't figure out how to keep the pie crust from shrinking and sliding during the pre-bake. I dock the dough, I cook it slower and longer (30 minutes at 300), I put in a bag of pie weights, but inevitably there's shrinkage and some parts of the sides slump toward the middle making a misshapen mess that takes all of the art out of my artwork.

I know there must be a method that would prevent this. Putting another pie dish on top to hold the crust in place would work if the crust could breathe through the upper layer of glass, which it can't. Maybe more pie weights would help, but I assume the quantity you buy in one bag is the quantity you need--would they really sell you just 1/5th of what it actually takes to be effective? I'm using the standard Pyrex pie dish.

So where am I going wrong? Those of you who blind your crusts first, how do you ensure it maintains it's shape during the pre-bake?

I had that problem for a while. I started freezing the single crusts before blind baking and making absolutely sure that I was rolling the dough out from the centre instead of stretching it at the edges.

Problem seems to be solved.

[Jenise]

Well, I do roll my dough that way, so next time I'll try freezing. Never would have thought of it--thanks.

Another thing that helps is rolling out a tiny bit thicker than you think a crust should be, I love really thin crust but when making single crust pies make it just a touch thicker.

I also started baking it about 25 degrees hotter than the recipe suggests for the first few minutes, sometimes even 50 degrees hotter, the blast of heat seems to set it in place.

[Jenise]

Another thing that helps is rolling out a tiny bit thicker than you think a crust should be, I love really thin crust but when making single crust pies make it just a touch thicker.

You know what, I've always actually liked thicker crusts so never skimped in that department--however, because the blind baking seemed to shrink it into an even thicker crust, I've deliberately tried to roll out e a thinner crust so that the final result would be just perfect. Sounds like my plan might have been self-defeating?

I also started baking it about 25 degrees hotter than the recipe suggests for the first few minutes, sometimes even 50 degrees hotter, the blast of heat seems to set it in place.

I'll try that next time, thanks.

I seriously doubt that you have this problem as you are a very skilled cook but your dough may be too moist. Too much moisture can cause shrinkage. It's just another thing to think about.

My best guess though, based on your experience, is that your dough is not cold enough. Try the freezing method and see what happens.

rwj

[Jenise]

I seriously doubt that you have this problem as you are a very skilled cook but your dough may be too moist. Too much moisture can cause shrinkage. It's just another thing to think about.

My best guess though, based on your experience, is that your dough is not cold enough. Try the freezing method and see what happens.

rwj

Robert, my doughs come out beautifully on two crust pies, so I don't think that's the problem. Temperature is a more likely factor--I rolled the crusts out at cool room temperature (after chilling overnight), but they were likely 70 degrees by the time they went into the oven.

Yeah, it sounds like a temp thing. I bet it will work out fine next time. Let us know.

rwj

My wife Louise excels at pastries and so I asked her how to approach this.

She said a lot that corresponds to what has already been said here -- be sure the dough is good and cold, and the oven extra hot (425). You don't need to buy pie weights, use dried beans or split peas and tin foil. Prick the bottom all over with a fork -- put the tin foil down and fill as necessary with the beans. BUT only leave the weights or beans in for 10 minutes. Because of the tin foil you can then remove the beans/weights easily and finish the last few minutes unencumbered, that lets it brown.

She's made 3 pies over the last couple of days, but only one of them with a "blind" baked crust -- Cranberry Crunch pie for Thanksgiving, and Lemon Meringue Pie and Pecan pie for a birthday dinner last night. The L.M.P. had a pre-baked crust (made with Plugra butter) which was delicious flakey and perfect.

I am a lucky guy, and also a bit overweight, hmm, the two things may be related...

Frank

[Jenise]

She said a lot that corresponds to what has already been said here -- be sure the dough is good and cold, and the oven extra hot (425).

If both Leslie and Louise say it's so, it must work. I'll try soon on another pie (instead of waiting for next Thanksgiving, which is in fact the only time of the year you can count on me for this treat.)

You don't need to buy pie weights, use dried beans or split peas and tin foil. Prick the bottom all over with a fork -- put the tin foil down and fill as necessary with the beans. BUT only leave the weights or beans in for 10 minutes. Because of the tin foil you can then remove the beans/weights easily and finish the last few minutes unencumbered, that lets it brown....

Well, I realize about the beans, but I have the pie weights so no problem. Re the foil part and early removal--intuitively, I do exactly both because the fat in the crust sweats under the foil and allowing that without giving it a chance to dry out would seem to defeat the whole purpose behind blind baking in the first place. The browning part I never really considered!

I am a lucky guy, and also a bit overweight, hmm, the two things may be related...

Of course they are! And as admirable as perfect fitness is, most of the perfectly fit husbands I know would happily trade 10 or 20 pounds for a few great home cooked meals once in awhile. (One such friend of ours, his daily dinner consists of his choice of 300 calorie Lean Cuisines.)

[Jenise]

NEWS FLASH: We were invited to a friend's home last night for dinner. Dessert was a home made lemon meringue pie that had the most miraculous, flakey crust I've ever seen. I swooned over it, of course, and Nina said she just makes pie the way her mom in the Appalachian holler she grew up in (where everybody's uncle, father and brother worked in the coal mines) did. Of course I had to ask Nina what her method was for blind baking--did she chill it, did she freeze it, did she do it at a high temperature and how much weights she did use? She looked at me like I'd lost my mind, exclaiming "If you're gentle enough you don't need to do any of that!"

Dang, that's impressive. So this week Nina's going to teach me how to make pie crust HER way. I'll report back.

You've got to let the rest of us know what the secret is.

You've got to let the rest of us know what the secret is.

Lard, no doubt.

[Jenise]

You've got to let the rest of us know what the secret is.

Lard, no doubt.

THIS JUST IN: No lard. She uses Crisco (butter flavored). 2/3 c of it, plus 2 cups flour and 7 tblsp ice water. She lets it rest at least 45 minutes but no longer than two hours, and definitely not overnight which she finds toughens it.