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Victorwine wrote:In today’s wine world are Old World-New World wines defined by geography or by winemaker’s philosophy?
In today’s wine world are Old World-New World wines defined by geography or by winemaker’s philosophy?
Name an American [North or South] or Pacific [Australian or New Zealand] house that has made a wine which could pass muster as legitimate Old World.
Nathan Smyth wrote:This would be a good discussion topic in its own right: Name an American [North or South] or Pacific [Australian or New Zealand] house that has made a wine which could pass muster as legitimate Old World.
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Max Hauser wrote:Nathan Smyth wrote:This would be a good discussion topic in its own right: Name an American [North or South] or Pacific [Australian or New Zealand] house that has made a wine which could pass muster as legitimate Old World.
Actually I've run into it a fair amount, Nathan, over the [30] years, though not every day. One regular, very experienced blind tasting group I'm in does mostly Burgundies, most of its members are in the wine business in the San Francisco area. One of them "imports" US Pacific-Northwest wines to California and enjoys slipping his Pinot Noir "ringers" into red Burgundy tastings, with revealing results since they're blind. Someone once did the same with a Burgundian-styled California Chardonnay among white Burgs and not only was it a favorite, I bought some. (Talk is cheaper than wine.) And there's the history of premium California Cabernets originating with old-world-style roots long before people talked much of "new-world" styles -- more in this Related Thread citing also European tastings of those days, like the 1976 Spurrier "Paris" event. If I recall, part of the news then was that experienced tasters couldn't reliably separate the continents of origin. And apropos the ERP forum, a European contributor there, associated with the GJE, recently posted statistics showing how well judges there could distinguish "new-world" wines made of old-world grapes like Cabernet; for some wines it was far easier than others.
(By the way, I wish someone would assist time-pressed readers like me by changing this thread's title to something more revealing, like "Old-world new-world: Style or geography?")
Nathan Smyth wrote:This would be a good discussion topic in its own right: Name an American [North or South] or Pacific [Australian or New Zealand] house that has made a wine which could pass muster as legitimate Old World.
Rahsaan wrote:Since most people seem to agree that Old World vs. New World is primarily an issue of style and not geography, it is also worth asking to what degree the overripe/high alcohol style is exclusively New World. I.E., Parker and UC Davis aside, haven't there been old world oenologists and other influential people contributing to the trend, along with shifting palates among younger Europeans?
How much can we really locate the development in the new world at all?
(Am just wondering, since I lack the history with which others may be more familiar)
Thomas wrote:From a technical standpoint, there really is a delineation between Old and New World...I can't prove it, but I'd bet that those wines that many of us describe as Old World, likely lack the benefit of some of the New World technical applications..
Rahsaan wrote:Since most people seem to agree that Old World vs. New World is primarily an issue of style and not geography
Max Hauser wrote:the 1976 Spurrier "Paris" event
Bob Ross wrote:Most of the differences between the Old and New Worlds of wine are being systematically eroded as those in the Old World increasingly adopt technical innovation and those in the New World are increasingly exposed to some of the better aspects of tradition.
My understanding is that we are in a period of transition in the meaning of these phases.
Regards, Bob
Nathan Smyth wrote:But I am interested in California wineries which are making a serious attempt at crafting something really suave and sophisticated - I know it can be done, but I encounter it so rarely that I have to wonder if the geography [especially the climate] isn't holding them back.
Max Hauser wrote:Nathan Smyth wrote:But I am interested in California wineries which are making a serious attempt at crafting something really suave and sophisticated - I know it can be done, but I encounter it so rarely that I have to wonder if the geography [especially the climate] isn't holding them back.
Again, if I understand the description, that was the rule -- not the exception -- when California reds were establishing themselves. I mentioned some history Here. (Phenomena like focus groups, winery tour buses, Hollywood celebrities buying wineries, and heavy Latinate label names suggestive of Gregorian chants, or the Inquisition, came later to California. After its wines were successful.)
Offhand, some California Cabernet examples that I've experienced personally, in some cases recently:
1955 Inglenook Cabernet
1965 Inglenook Cabernet
Heitz Martha's Vineyard, 1968, 1969, 1974
BV Geo. de Latour Private Reserve [Tchelistcheff's wine], many years in 1960s and 70s -- some STILL drink well, I recently attended a meal with nine of these wines, 1968-1976, through courtesy of a modest but enthusiastic local wine consumer who simply bought them at the time, and stored them well.
Ridge Monte Bello Cabernet (but mature, like an old-world dark red, rather than served young as Gaiter and Brecher suggested in their "Thanksgiving" article, Wall St. Journal 9 Nov 07) -- this wine is still produced in its original style.
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