WTN: To Please or Not to Please

The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Moderators: Jenise, David M. Bueker, Robin Garr

WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby Rahsaan » Wed May 24, 2006 10:52 am

1994 Maximin Grunhauser Herrenberg Riesling Kabinett #8
This is a bit simple, sour, and excessively verdant on the first day, but there is a core of a tiny hard ball of sweet red fruit. On the second day it really comes into focus, is firmer and more detailed in a tiny ballet-like way that I seem to only find in MG. The flavors are gosh-darn-fun spicy cherry stones and crisp fresh cucumber, and the world is alright.

1996 Maximin Grunhauser Abtsberg Riesling Spatlese #8
Nothing wrong with this wine. Sweet deep and golden but with great verdant freshness (is that terroir, overcropping, or both?), very firm, very poised, it lets you know it is an elegant wine. This could age and might have gotten better with air, but –gulp – I finished it too soon (the second day to be precise).

2004 Selbach Riesling Kabinett
The only drinkable white wine in a shop near a friend’s house, it shows more than adequate slushy lime rocks and matches very well with spicy lentils. Workman’s wine.

2004 Thierry Germain Saumur Champigny
The only drinkable red wine in a shop near a friend’s house, it is straightforward from the corkpull with fresh, firm, focused, yet fun and lively dark cab franc fruits. But it has a little mystery underneath as well, and maybe is not profound, but a tad more than a workman’s wine.

1999 Giamello Barbaresco “La Licenziana”
This was drinking well, soft and luscious yet delicate and floral. Gorgeous gorgeous nose, some sandy tannins. Overall nothing glorious, but a nice “little” Barbaresco.

2002 Domaine des Huards Cour-Cheverny
Tingling verdant astringency (is that tannin?), crisp minty notes, with an intensely-coiled iron braid underneath, and then all the broad white flowers and waxy romo musk on top. Not bad, not thrilling, but I’d be curious to try the higher-end bottling from these folks.

1997 Vieux Télégraphe Chateauneuf du Pape “La Crau”
Weird stage. Plummy red fruits without a lot of definition and not yet fully into the secondaries. Still, is enjoyable with lots of air, soft and lush, warm and funky.

NV Roederer Estate Anderson Valley Brut
My first taste of this wine, and it was very correct, ripe firm and bold but with an elegant razor mineral crinkle down the spine that makes it very attractive to a mineral slut.

2001 Tenuta Sant’Antonio Valpolicella Superiore Ripasso “Monte Garbi”
This did not thrill me. We had two bottles for my cousin’s graduation dinner, and maybe it didn’t get enough air in the restaurant, but the simple brick of vaguely raisin-ey flavors and dull texture did not really excite me. However it did please the other folks who wanted forward tastes.

2004 Cascina 'Tavijn Ruche di Castagnole Monferrato
Very nice. Starts off quite primary and grapey, but then the earthy under-notes kick in and it becomes a more complete wine, in a bold flavorful way.

2005 Clos Saron Carte Blanche
A CA blend of viognier, chardonny, and sauvignon blanc would not normally make its way into my glass, but, this Sierra foothills producer is supposed to be quite interesting and quirky, and the retail clerk convinced me by saying that if Jenny and François could import a wine from CA this would be it. However, I found nothing quirky, but rather simple boring slightly overoaked yellow fruits. There’s just no pleasing some people.
Rahsaan
Wild and Crazy Guy
 
Posts: 6918
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:20 pm
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby David M. Bueker » Wed May 24, 2006 11:08 am

Interesting to hear you comment about overcropping in the Grunhaus. I have recently hears that comment in relation to Grunhaus and Prum as the "reason" they produce kabinett that tastes like kabinett. Additionally, Nik Weis of St. Urbans-Hof has said that he allows a somewhat heavier crop load in parcels he wants for kabinett. So we get different flavors tones, and a refreshment value that is truly of the kabinett genre. I don't see anything wrong with that. If they pruned/trellised to get minimal crop loads in every parcel we would have nothing but high grade auslese, and I don't want to drink that all the time (much as I love it).

I see the whole merciless crop thinning argument to be especially troublesome in Germany because it will destroy an ethereal yet vibrant style of wine in favor of richness for its own sake. Bah!
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
User avatar
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
 
Posts: 21980
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby Rahsaan » Wed May 24, 2006 11:22 am

I see the whole merciless crop thinning argument to be especially troublesome in Germany because it will destroy an ethereal yet vibrant style of wine in favor of richness for its own sake. Bah!


I agree, and perhaps I shouldn't have said "over"cropping, which implies a negative judgement.

I was just wondering whether the common verdant note in Grunhauser wines is a function of terroir or vineyard practices. Obviously it's a function of both (as always) although I guess in Germany where many great rieslings have similarly heavy loads, the unique type of verdancy in Grunhauser must also reflect the unique terroir.
Rahsaan
Wild and Crazy Guy
 
Posts: 6918
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:20 pm
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby David M. Bueker » Wed May 24, 2006 1:08 pm

Rahsaan wrote:I was just wondering whether the common verdant note in Grunhauser wines is a function of terroir or vineyard practices. Obviously it's a function of both (as always) although I guess in Germany where many great rieslings have similarly heavy loads, the unique type of verdancy in Grunhauser must also reflect the unique terroir.


Likely the terroir, as even low yield years have that green aspect. I love it.
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
User avatar
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
 
Posts: 21980
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby Dale Williams » Wed May 24, 2006 2:31 pm

Thanks for the notes on the Grunhausers.

I picked up some of those '99 Giamello Licenzias when PC had them for under $10. More like a Langhe Nebbiolo than a Barbaresco from a weight standpoint, but a good deal at the price (I ended up mostly using for cooking a Beef in Barolo dish, like cock in Chambertin some recipes are usually a little too expensive to do in traditional manner - but you don't eat meat, right?).
User avatar
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
 
Posts: 7851
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby Otto » Wed May 24, 2006 3:29 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
2004 Thierry Germain Saumur Champigny
The only drinkable red wine in a shop near a friend’s house, it is straightforward from the corkpull with fresh, firm, focused, yet fun and lively dark cab franc fruits. But it has a little mystery underneath as well, and maybe is not profound, but a tad more than a workman’s wine.


Hmmm! Odd, I've tried a few Germains recently (r and w) and found them rather too oaky. Has he corrected his sins in recent vintages? Or was I tasting the Germains on a day when I was feeling over sensitive to oak?
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
User avatar
Otto
Musaroholic
 
Posts: 4040
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby Rahsaan » Wed May 24, 2006 5:56 pm

I picked up some of those '99 Giamello Licenzias when PC had them for under $10. More like a Langhe Nebbiolo than a Barbaresco from a weight standpoint, but a good deal at the price (I ended up mostly using for cooking a Beef in Barolo dish, like cock in Chambertin some recipes are usually a little too expensive to do in traditional manner - but you don't eat meat, right?).


That does sound like a great price. I don't eat meat, but I suppose I wouldn't mind purchasing a few bottles at that price, to cook with, casually serve to guests, or even drink on my own.
Rahsaan
Wild and Crazy Guy
 
Posts: 6918
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:20 pm
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby Rahsaan » Wed May 24, 2006 5:57 pm

Odd, I've tried a few Germains recently (r and w) and found them rather too oaky.


Which cuvees? This basic Saumur Champigny? I don't think I've had any higher level bottlings, but that could be an explanation..
Rahsaan
Wild and Crazy Guy
 
Posts: 6918
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:20 pm
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby Otto » Wed May 24, 2006 6:54 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
Odd, I've tried a few Germains recently (r and w) and found them rather too oaky.


Which cuvees? This basic Saumur Champigny? I don't think I've had any higher level bottlings, but that could be an explanation..


Thierry Germain Saumur-Champigny Marginale 2000 Nice savoury Cab F nose though with quite a bit of oak, but enough tobacco and greenness to keep up my interest. Palate was likewise lovely Cab F with no noticable oak.

Also an Isolite of forgotten vintage (and can't the note for it) which was pure oak.

I did apparently like the Saum-Champ better than I remembered... I guess it was the Insolite which made me remember that this was only oak.
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
User avatar
Otto
Musaroholic
 
Posts: 4040
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby Paulo in Philly » Wed May 24, 2006 9:14 pm

Not that I wish to offend my ancestors who lived in the Valpolicella region, but... Ripasso is just way too raisiny and goopy for me, too. Every ripasso I have had (inlucing Tommassi) I have gotten the same reaction. Add some producers who have been "paying it fruit-forward" - and I am REALLY not interested. Of course, all those around me LOVE the ripasso and continue to think of me as grumpy.
User avatar
Paulo in Philly
Wine guru
 
Posts: 940
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:26 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: WTN: To Please or Not to Please

Postby Rahsaan » Thu May 25, 2006 11:24 am

but... Ripasso is just way too raisiny and goopy for me, too.


Quinterelli as well?

Does this also apply to sweet wines? Port? Sherry?

In general my tastes don't go for raisiny and goopy, but when there's something else going on, as in the above-mentioned wines, I can dig it. Unfortunately this Garbi showed too simple..
Rahsaan
Wild and Crazy Guy
 
Posts: 6918
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:20 pm
Location: Chapel Hill, NC


Return to The Wine Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], Rahsaan and 22 guests