*PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby Sam Platt » Sat May 19, 2007 4:10 pm

MtBakerDave wrote:There's so much wine coming out of Bordeaux that I expect to always find decent stuff for a reasonable price, given that I don't care about the name on the bottle.

I agree. Once I got past the idea that I needed to recognize the name of the Chateau I discovered a bunch of good wine at a reasonable price. So much for my attempt at snobbery. :)
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby Isaac » Sat May 19, 2007 8:32 pm

That didn't work out well for me. I bought several Bordeauxs 'on spec', and three of four were not worth bringing home. I think lots of poorly made wine is being sold at a premium based on the reputation and high prices of the top Bordeaux wines.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby Lou Kessler » Sat May 19, 2007 9:05 pm

JoePerry wrote:
James Roscoe wrote:Such is life.


Yeah, but I'm 27 with less than 200 bottles in the cellar... it's going to be a long painful road of wine buying for me over the next 50 years.


Well, if you hadn't been so nasty to me on numerous occasions I would still have you in my will and you wouldn't have to worry.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby Sam Platt » Sat May 19, 2007 9:48 pm

That didn't work out well for me. I bought several Bordeauxs 'on spec', and three of four were not worth bringing home. I think lots of poorly made wine is being sold at a premium based on the reputation and high prices of the top Bordeaux wines.

Isaac,

I've had particularly good luck with lesser Chateau in the 2000 vintage. I have not necessarily had the same luck with other vintages.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby JoePerry » Sat May 19, 2007 11:52 pm

Lou Kessler wrote:
JoePerry wrote:
James Roscoe wrote:Such is life.


Yeah, but I'm 27 with less than 200 bottles in the cellar... it's going to be a long painful road of wine buying for me over the next 50 years.


Well, if you hadn't been so nasty to me on numerous occasions I would still have you in my will and you wouldn't have to worry.


Amy. Think of Amy.

She's going to need wine more than I will very soon. :twisted:
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby Covert » Sun May 20, 2007 7:49 am

JoePerry wrote:Covert, I'm not sure I agree with your portrayal of the situation. Some people want kids, some people don’t. I don't judge on either account. There's a lot of folks out there whose greatest joy is their children. Besides, if a couple has 1 or 2 kids, they aren't adding to the population, they're lowering or maintaining it (and, yes, I do think there should be tax implications for the number of kids people have).

Moreover, the answer to being skewered by absurd wine prices shouldn't be "well, don't have kids!"


I know that people want and love kids. My point is that if you have them they often become the greatest joy; and that is good, since the parents often can't enjoy much else. But if you choose not to have them, even if you want them, you will often lose that desire to have them and not miss having them at all. Now, if one finds that he or she still wants kids three or four years down the road, s/he can reverse course and have them (if surgery hasn't been performed).

I've done a lot of thinking about this. My wife wanted children and we split up over the battle. She said she wanted me back and would agree not to have kids; I said she could have kids and I would go along with it. Then we agreed to wait and the feeling past for her.

What I see now in her is the finest example of a human being I have ever met. Between her late 20s and now she has grown immeasurably. She's more beautiful physically to me than she was in her 20s and the most authentic and interesting person I know to talk with.

I can't help making a comparison with wine. So many people I know decide to have children and then put all their resources and attention to growing the kids and kind of live their lives through the kids from then on. The adults never develop further. As middle aged people they are just as dull as they were when they were young. To me, having children is like drinking a fine Bordeaux before it develops any complexity and character.

I know there must be exceptions. In fact I have a neighbor who is interesting to talk to and has kids. He developed into middle age, however, without even getting married. Then he married a pretty young girl who wanted kids. He acquiesced. I would do the same thing, I guess, if I were in his shoes. :)

Best,

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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby John Tomasso » Sun May 20, 2007 9:31 am

Covert, yours is an interesting post.

I also made the conscious decision not to have children, and I have no regrets. And though I married a woman who already had a child, that child was pretty much grown and I had little to do with the rearing process.

I do wonder what will happen to me, (and you) when we become too old and frail to care for ourselves. Having just gone through a four year period in which my mother became quite ill, and finally passed, I know first hand what it means to have caring family by one's side during such a time, as opposed to hired caregivers. During the time that I was immersed in the world of hospitals and convalescent homes, I watched as some patients were consistently surrounded by their kids, while others wasted away, day after day, ignored and alone. It is one of the saddest things I've ever experienced.

So, while a childless lifestyle has provided me with some advantages along life's road, I am starting to fear what might lie at the end of it.

I guess I can hold out hope that nieces and nephews might be inclined to offer comfort - even if for the wrong reasons, if you get my drift. But it's a scary proposition.
"I say: find cheap wines you like, and never underestimate their considerable charms." - David Rosengarten, "Taste"
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby Covert » Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am

John Tomasso wrote:I do wonder what will happen to me, (and you) when we become too old and frail to care for ourselves.


Hi John,

Thanks for the discussion.

We have a couple of houses paid for that we plan to sell when it is time to go into a nursing home. The proceeds should yield enough funds to hire a person to care for us. There are risks, but we won't have too long to suffer untoward circumstances if we get unlucky. And personally, I wouldn't want to put my kids through the hassle of taking care of me. I'm hoping I can still drink my wine in the nursing home, and that my wife and I shut down around the same time.

Obviously I should have written "passed" rather than "past" in my post. I couldn't edit it after I moved out of the program.

Best,

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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby John Tomasso » Sun May 20, 2007 10:43 am

Covert wrote: And personally, I wouldn't want to put my kids through the hassle of taking care of me.


For me, it wasn't a hassle - it was the most worthwhile thing I've ever done.
I don't know that I'd be as good a patient as my Mom was, though. :wink:
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby Nathan Smyth » Mon May 21, 2007 3:33 am

JoePerry wrote:
James Roscoe wrote:Such is life.


Yeah, but I'm 27 with less than 200 bottles in the cellar... it's going to be a long painful road of wine buying for me over the next 50 years.

I dunno, there are more terroirs in the world than Puligny & Vosne.

Maybe I'm unduly optimistic, because I've had a string of good luck recently with New World vintners trying to emulate an Old World style:

The Fisher Family, up on the top of Spring Mountain, in Napa.

The Hickeys, at Laetitia, in the Arroyo Grande.

And I just discovered a new Australian label, called "Colonial Estate", that's making the closest thing to Puligny that I've ever seen from the far east.

Seriously - there's a nearly infinite amount of acreage on the face of the earth that could conceivably grow grapes, and surely these astronomical prices will convince more and more people to get in the business - experimenting with more and more different terroirs and more and more different styles and more and more different varietals.

I guess that's what the economists would call supply rising to meet demand.
Last edited by Nathan Smyth on Mon May 21, 2007 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby RichardAtkinson » Mon May 21, 2007 12:05 pm

At 49...my cellar is considerably less well stocked than 200 bottles. Its a good thing that we like simple chiantis. May be the best wine bargain out there...at least for the time being.

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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby Bill Hooper » Tue May 22, 2007 1:33 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
JoePerry wrote:
James Roscoe wrote:Such is life.


Yeah, but I'm 27 with less than 200 bottles in the cellar... it's going to be a long painful road of wine buying for me over the next 50 years.

I dunno, there are more terroirs in the world than Puligny & Vosne.


There maybe more, but few better. Especially in the case of Puligny where there is always much bitching over the price. I'm happy if I can find a bottle or two of wine from such producers as Carillon or Sauzet at all. AND, I'm overjoyed at the fact that I can still buy all the Riesling and Gruner Veltliner I want from Germany and Austria for less than $50 a bottle. Christ, blame the internet and globalization. I wish I lived in Aloxe in 1830 when all it took to drink great wine was a pail and a pair of chickens, but to love the greatest wines in the world costs money these days.
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Re: *PSSSSSSSCCCHHTTT* (wine prices)

Postby Nathan Smyth » Wed May 23, 2007 3:37 pm

Bill Hooper wrote:
Nathan Smyth wrote:
JoePerry wrote:
James Roscoe wrote:Such is life.


Yeah, but I'm 27 with less than 200 bottles in the cellar... it's going to be a long painful road of wine buying for me over the next 50 years.

I dunno, there are more terroirs in the world than Puligny & Vosne.


There maybe more, but few better. Especially in the case of Puligny where there is always much bitching over the price. I'm happy if I can find a bottle or two of wine from such producers as Carillon or Sauzet at all. AND, I'm overjoyed at the fact that I can still buy all the Riesling and Gruner Veltliner I want from Germany and Austria for less than $50 a bottle. Christ, blame the internet and globalization. I wish I lived in Aloxe in 1830 when all it took to drink great wine was a pail and a pair of chickens, but to love the greatest wines in the world costs money these days.


Yeah, in the next few years, things might be teh sux0r, but Joe Perry is talking a fifty year time frame.

Surely, as we speak, there must be a Chinaman, out on the steppes of central Asia, who's staring at the chalky, limestone hill which rises behind his house, and wondering to himself, "Gee, you don't suppose that soil would support grape vines, do you?"

And almost countless others like him, all around the world, who look at $100/bottle wine prices, and think to themselves, "Heh, I could do that..."

I still haven't given up on the idea of wine-friendly terroir throughout the American heartland; lots of places - from Texas [even down into Mexico], through Colorado, up to Idaho - sure do look like they could support Vitis Vinifera.

Maybe even Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas...
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