Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11173
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Florida Jim
Wine guru
1253
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:27 pm
St. Pete., FL & Sonoma, CA
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11173
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
while organic wines are made without the use of chemicals and pesticides.
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34424
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Especially if the “packet” yeast or bacteria (MLB) is “selected from nature”, and using so called “packet” or “desirable” strains of yeast and bacteria could possibly reduce the risk of “things to go wrong” (the production of “excessive” levels of amines for example).
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34424
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Hoke wrote:Lettie Teague is to 'responsible wine journalism" as...... (finish this analogy).
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
David M. Bueker wrote:Hoke wrote:Lettie Teague is to 'responsible wine journalism" as...... (finish this analogy).
The Twilight Saga is to great literature.
Paul Winalski
Wok Wielder
8058
Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm
Merrimack, New Hampshire
Brian Gilp wrote:Lastly, I don't understand the fascination with how the yeast gets into the fermentation vat. If it rides in on the grapes that's good. If it resides in the winery that's good as well. If it comes in a packet, that's bad. Seems like a strange distinction to me.
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34424
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Paul Winalski wrote:I've talked to several great winemakers in Burgundy, and they take a hands-off approach and let the wine make itself as much as possible. But if things start to go wrong, they don't hesitate to bring technology to bear to rescue the situation.
Brian K Miller
Passionate Arboisphile
9340
Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:05 am
Northern California
Thomas wrote:The trouble with the term "indigenous yeast" is that local yeast populations can easily mix with "vacationing" yeast populations.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Brian K Miller wrote:Thomas wrote:The trouble with the term "indigenous yeast" is that local yeast populations can easily mix with "vacationing" yeast populations.
Miscegenation in the microflora world! Where is a Republican Congressman to bemoan this fact!
Paul Winalski wrote:There's a school of thought that says that viticulture and winemaking should be done with as little human intervention as possible. So hand weeding is better than spraying with Roundup. Avoiding pesticides is goodness. Using the indigenous yeasts to do the fermentation is better than inoculation. One should avoid sulfur. No fining or filtering. And so on.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
I believe that one could dump yeast into the lugs in the field and those wines would meet the definition of "Natural wines" since one is not innoculating the fermentation vat.
I also don't understand how the use of SO2 at crush works with the idea of natual wines as it seems to me that one is altering what nature gave you. if going to go native, go all the way.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Thomas wrote:And if I may pile onto Hoke's list of interventions: pruning vines is not "natural," neither is tying them, suckering, or even cover cropping between the rows--the rows themselves are not "natural."
Hoke wrote:Okay, Brian, gotta back up a little. I'm confused (I know, not an uncommon occurence.)
You said:I believe that one could dump yeast into the lugs in the field and those wines would meet the definition of "Natural wines" since one is not innoculating the fermentation vat.
How is adding yeast to a lug not "inoculation"? You've added yeast You're not depending on either ambient or "wild" yeast...and going even further, there's a significant difference between using "wild yeasts" and utilizing yeast that has been cultivated form and exist within your biosphere. But the major point is, if you add yeast, any kind of yeast at any time, you're "interfering" with the "natural process."
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Brian Gilp wrote:Hoke wrote:Okay, Brian, gotta back up a little. I'm confused (I know, not an uncommon occurence.)
You said:I believe that one could dump yeast into the lugs in the field and those wines would meet the definition of "Natural wines" since one is not innoculating the fermentation vat.
How is adding yeast to a lug not "inoculation"? You've added yeast You're not depending on either ambient or "wild" yeast...and going even further, there's a significant difference between using "wild yeasts" and utilizing yeast that has been cultivated form and exist within your biosphere. But the major point is, if you add yeast, any kind of yeast at any time, you're "interfering" with the "natural process."
I do believe that it is inoculation. My comment stems from something I read on another board by a winemaker that promotes the natural wine approach and his definition that natural wine relates to only what happens inside the winery and that anything that happens outside the winery is irrelevant wrt the definition of natural wine. Sure he was talking about how viticulture does not matter wrt natural winemaking and maybe i am taking liberties with his explanationI but from how he stated it, the stupid scenario I propose would be still qualify as natural wine since it happened outside the winery and the winemaking process.
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