ChaimShraga wrote:A year and a half after Rogov's passing, and sometimes I still feel like I'm steeping into a wake, so I don't know how explicit I can allow myself to be - but I never really trusted Rogov's drinking windows, except for Bordeaux, but then again many of the known Bdx chateaus have such an established record that you could phone a review in with good odds to hit it right.
I think Pinchas hit it right regarding the prominence of oak in Yarden wines. To me, it was obvious for quite a few years that Rogov held oak in too high a regard, despite his statements to the contrary.
What I don't get is, a lot of you buy a good quantity of each wine (to be blunt, that makes sense, as you have less of an available selection than an agnostic such as I, therefore more free budget and more available fridge space for duplicate purchases). Why not just follow up and figure it out?
Having said that, the antipathetic meanie in me is quite glad that Adam brought it up.
Yossie Horwitz wrote:Steve Heimoff had some interesting thoughts germane to this discussion: http://www.steveheimoff.com/index.php/2013/04/15/aging-your-wine-dont-expect-a-magic-moment/
Adam M wrote:This past Shabbat I opened a 2006 Yarden Tel Phares Syrah. This is the wine that I have been having problems with. This time, I decided to change my behavior slightly and I removed the bottle from my cellar on Friday morning and stood it up at room temperature until the evening. The bottle had been in hibernation at probably around 58-60 degrees F. I think the extended transition out of the cellar at room temperature may have helped quite a bit because the wine was more than drinkable. It was very enjoyable and lasted until we finished it the next day. There were undertones of cognac, but not in an -over-the-hill way. I will have to repeat these pre-opening steps next week with another older wine and see if I get similar results.
Adam M wrote:Hi Elie - I wish my prestigious Eurocave cellar maintained consistent temperate throughout the unit. Unfortunately, though, there are many natural temperature zones in my 300-capacity unit. The back of each row is a few degrees cooler than than the front of the same row. And there is a range of a few degrees from the top shelf to the bottom shelf. So while I have my temp set at 55F, only the center of the center row is at this temp, with the back of the lower shelves hovering around 50F. The front of the top shelf keeps a little under 65.
It took me while to be content with this. Initially, I had assumed that, with such a high price and the weight of the brand's prestige, I would get 55F throughout the entire cellar. The truth is that this simply isn't the case. Eurocave has a premium unit that is over $1000 more money that has a fan that circulates air, which is supposed to increase temperature consistency. But even Eurocave will tell you that there will still be natural temperature zones.
The positive of this is that there near perfect consistency within each zone. My workstream has been to keep the wines witht he longest aging potential in the rear bottom shelves, and the wines without meaningful aging potential on the top shelf (as well as wines that I bring from a lower shelf to get ready to drink). I follow a similar approach to the intervening shelves, mutatis mutandis.
I drink many other wines from all zones in my cellar with success and so have dismissed "errant cellaring" as a likely theory.
David Raccah wrote:...
but truly I never understood the appeal of many to hold on to wines fro so long. I used to do it thinking the wines would improve, and for some - some amount of age does improve them...
David Raccah wrote:EV has the ability to hold - but truly I never understood the appeal of many to hold on to wines fro so long. I used to do it thinking the wines would improve, and for some - some amount of age does improve them. The 2005 EV Cab is there already - age will not further improve this. So, your question should I buy some - sure, if the wine is drinking well and you have access to them - buy another bottle enjoy it in two weeks and be happy. Buying a case to get to eventually - not the best of ideas, as this wine is in solid drink now mode and drink it while you can enjoy it. Otherwise, spend your money on wines that are far more here and have a bit of time left on them, so that a mistake of a few months will not cost you, though IMHO, if stored correctly the 2005 EV Cab should have more than just a few months.
David Raccah wrote:Guys - at first I thought it was just me, but after I showed your false commentary to others, commentary that you based upon some fiction that you read from my ACTUAL comments - I have no choice but to unleash upon you both - because today is not your lucky day - sorry! I know reading comprehension is hard for some people out there, but maybe a little effort from either of your parts would have turned this into a slightly softer reply - but such is life.
Let us do a classic third grade reading comprehension exercise here - called breaking down sentence structure. You conveniently quoted my comments - so I will help you break them down now, so that you can review this with your children this evening - maybe they can help you out for our pop quiz tomorrow!
EV has the ability to hold - but truly I never understood the appeal of many to hold on to wines fro so long. I used to do it thinking the wines would improve, and for some - some amount of age does improve them.
In the first sentence, I will admit that there was a spelling error - I am surprised you missed that - since you are so good as mistakes! Note also that I stated in that first sentence, after a quick note about most EV wine structure, that many think that holding on to wines has a special appeal. In the next sentence I noted - what - class - what did I note, anyone, anyone? I stated that for some wines - aging does improve them! See - you did not read! You jumped and projected on the first sentence and never completed reading the next sentence - classic projection and worse a total failure in reading comprehension! Sorry, I am going to have to keep both of you back today from recess, where you will be working on your new assignment, writing "David I am sorry for not reading what you wrote correctly" - and sending that into me by the end of day today.
The point of what I was saying is that many think aging is a silver bullet and that it will improve wines. Note, that I said that it is true for some wines - not all wines. You chose two wines, actually one winery whose wines show poorly at one dinner and much better at others, wines that absolutely do improve with time, but they were never happy to start with. The other examples by both of you are again, non-common wines, and NOT the 2005 EV Cab. The point I was saying ABOUT ONE FREAKING WINE PEOPLE, was that 2005 EV Cab - is already there, it is at its point and it will not improve over time. That was what I said, read it again if you can. I did not say that the 2001 El Rom Cab was not improving or that the 2010 VD Reserve was not improving with time - you freaks! What I DID SAY was that the 2005 EV Cab was there and NOT improving so drink up. I also said that I did not see the appeal that many hold - unilaterally - for all wines that time will improve them - THAT IS LIKE BELIEVING IN A FALSE GOD! Time will not improve those wines and like the saying goes, you cannot fix stupid!
There are many overachievers based on Rogov's scale, namely:
1. Carmel Limited Edition. all the vintages have held up beyond Rogov's assessment.
2. Castel red wines - Particularly the grand vin I have found to outlast Rogov's assessment.
3. Hevron Heights Isaac's Ram.
4. Tabor Mescha 05
5. Carmel Zarit"
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