Brian K Miller
Passionate Arboisphile
9340
Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:05 am
Northern California
Brian K Miller wrote:IPoB, Tom?
David Lole wrote:And from my Aussie perspective, the Asimov article just scratches the surface of what Australia has done exceedingly for decades now - making resounding, ageworthy, world class reds.
David Lole wrote:And from my Aussie perspective, the Asimov article just scratches the surface of what Australia has done exceedingly for decades now - making resounding, ageworthy, world class reds. Robert Parker Jnr. had a terrible effect on what Aussie wine makers/exporters thought was "the mark" (ie huge wines = huge scores = huge dollars) way back when. Although the high alcohol, huge extraction, big oak, no future, dead-fruited "bruiser" wines continue to be made (hopefully, in ever-decreasing volume), and given that America's general perception of Australian red wine is still, seemingly, somewhat out of whack with reality (what is sold in America vis-a-vis the totality what is made in Oz), the movement to more elegant, lower alcohol, less oaked reds here has gained some momentum in the last few years. Our chardonnay has gone almost full circle in less than a decade. Hopefully our reds are on a similar path. With a glut of grapes and unsold wine all across Australia, the smart operaters here have twigged that sheer quality is perhaps one salvo to an impending crisis in the local wine industry. One only hopes that not too many go down the gurgler before word gets out on what great juice they have to offer, especially for the price.
JC (NC)
Lifelong Learner
6679
Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:23 pm
Fayetteville, NC
Tim York wrote:David Lole wrote:And from my Aussie perspective, the Asimov article just scratches the surface of what Australia has done exceedingly for decades now - making resounding, ageworthy, world class reds.
David, as you have an appreciation of European wines at least equal to that of most European wine-lovers as well as a far superior knowledge of Australian wines, I feel emboldened to ask a question which some might regard as provocative, namely-
What do Australian growers and terroirs contribute to mainly European grape varieties which should motivate me to seek out Australian versions when the European originals are so much easier to find?
I taste wines from estates like Frankland where I find high quality but where the product is not sufficiently distinctive from what is made here for me to make a special effort to stock up with them.
I concede that South Australian Shiraz is unique but then I don't actually very much like most warm climate Shiraz/Syrah. Oz 100% Sémillon is also fairly unique because it is usually blended over here and much Oz Riesling is reliably dry which is becoming rare here with "trocken" allowing up to 10g/l of RS. And I have had some excitingly unusual stickies.
One of the charms of wine tourism in Europe is the marriage of terroirs with local grape varieties, which give rise to a vast palette of flavours, provided that growers resist the temptation to smother them in oak, particularly prevalent in Spain. This is very difficult for the New World to rival.
From Azimov's article it looks as if an effort is being made in New York to import boutique wines to interest the US connoisseur but again will they be very distinctive compared with the US products?
Can you suggest what an European palate should be looking for from Australia to give an experience which is likely to be both acceptable and distinctive? Availability here is not great but is much better in London which I visit occasionally.
Jon Leifer wrote:No horse in this race, not much of a buyer these days, just having fun drinking down my cellar..
Tim York wrote:David Lole wrote:And from my Aussie perspective, the Asimov article just scratches the surface of what Australia has done exceedingly for decades now - making resounding, ageworthy, world class reds.
David, as you have an appreciation of European wines at least equal to that of most European wine-lovers as well as a far superior knowledge of Australian wines, I feel emboldened to ask a question which some might regard as provocative, namely-
What do Australian growers and terroirs contribute to mainly European grape varieties which should motivate me to seek out Australian versions when the European originals are so much easier to find?
I taste wines from estates like Frankland where I find high quality but where the product is not sufficiently distinctive from what is made here for me to make a special effort to stock up with them.
I concede that South Australian Shiraz is unique but then I don't actually very much like most warm climate Shiraz/Syrah. Oz 100% Sémillon is also fairly unique because it is usually blended over here and much Oz Riesling is reliably dry which is becoming rare here with "trocken" allowing up to 10g/l of RS. And I have had some excitingly unusual stickies.
One of the charms of wine tourism in Europe is the marriage of terroirs with local grape varieties, which give rise to a vast palette of flavours, provided that growers resist the temptation to smother them in oak, particularly prevalent in Spain. This is very difficult for the New World to rival.
From Azimov's article it looks as if an effort is being made in New York to import boutique wines to interest the US connoisseur but again will they be very distinctive compared with the US products?
Can you suggest what an European palate should be looking for from Australia to give an experience which is likely to be both acceptable and distinctive? Availability here is not great but is much better in London which I visit occasionally.
Ben Rotter
Ultra geek
295
Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:59 pm
Sydney, Australia (currently)
Tim York wrote:What do Australian growers and terroirs contribute to mainly European grape varieties which should motivate me to seek out Australian versions when the European originals are so much easier to find?
Ben Rotter wrote:
The question of how Australian wines are differentiated from European wines is quite a different question to how Australian wines are differentiated from international wines IMO.
The clear distinction for me with respect to Europe is in regard to "fruit ripeness". Generally speaking, Australian wines present a riper aromatic/flavour profile, and often a fuller/heavier palate weight and different quality of tannins, than their European counterparts.
Distinction from wines on an international platform is more difficult.
There is a degree of distinctiveness for:
*Riesling from Clare Valley, Eden Valley, and Great Southern. Rieslings from those regions are (traditionally) a combination of being completely dry with a purity of lemon/lime aromas (often, and ideally) coupled with "mineral"/rock/talc/kerosene aromas. But the difference isn’t drastic relative to Rieslings from elsewhere in the world.
*I feel similarly about Cabernet Sauvignon. Given modern Bordeaux (and Cabernet Sauvignon from regions like Napa/Sonoma), I'm not sure that Australia's Cabernets are distinctive enough to warrant listing, though the traditional style of Cabernet Sauvignon from Coonawarra may be an exception.
*Aussie Chardonnay has almost completely changed in style over the last five to ten years (it's leaner, less ripe, and less oaky - but it's still reasonably ripe and pretty oaky), but I don’t think it has significant distinctiveness internationally.
*I suppose Aussie Shiraz has a degree of distinctiveness in that, for example, the Barossans show such big ripe fruit (and oak), the Victorians show ripe fruit but with a somewhat more savoury edge, and the Hunter Valley examples show an earthiness (at least with age) along with more red fruit character and a relatively lighter palate. But I don’t see them as particularly unique in an international context.
*It’s worth making a case for Rutherglen Durif. It’s relatively similar to Californian Petite Sirah, but it possibly has enough distinctiveness (the non-fruit aromas are different, and the tannins/palate is typically more punchy) to be considered unique (and it is certainly different from European equivalents).
What does Australia do that absolutely isn’t done elsewhere in the world?
*The traditional Hunter Valley style of Semillon - lean-and-citrusy-when-young but toasty-honeyed-when-old
*Sparkling Shiraz – perhaps not the heights of vinous interest, but it’s fun and particularly enjoyable during a hot summer’s day/night
*Shiraz Cabernet – not seen much these days, but it’s a pretty unique blend
*I think Aussie stickies ("dessert"-sweet wines, often with Botrytis influence) are generally underappreciated. Semillon stickies receive praise (particularly De Bortoli's Noble One), but I actually think Australia's Riesling stickies are more impressive - try Mount Horrocks' Cordon Cut, for example
*Fortified wines. Rutherglen Muscats are reasonably well known (Stanton & Killeen, Campbells, Morris and Rutherglen Estates are perhaps amongst the most widely seen outside Australia). Wines like Seppelts’ Para Liqueur Port (a tawny style aged in a solera system, with blends going back 100+ years) have no comparison.
Ben Rotter
Ultra geek
295
Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:59 pm
Sydney, Australia (currently)
Tim York wrote:I was hoping to learn about artisan wineries who make purer wines in a much more terroir influenced style which would give something rather more savoury to suit my European palate as well as distinctive compared with what is made here. I accept that many would not be available here
Tim York wrote: some Oz Riesling which I have had is very good and those from Grosset seem to have something a bit different which I would like to explore more, if the prices were less discouraging.
Tim York wrote: you touch on a sore point there about Bordeaux, which IMO is often becoming distressingly "international" in its over-ripeness and loss of its distinctive "green" edge. I have had a well aged John Riddoch Cab from Wynns which was very different from any Bordeaux left-banker.
I would love to get David's take as well on this matter. His posts in the Shiraz thread are stupefying in their erudition and very clear in their exposition of different estates' styles. This allows me to judge whether I would like the wines in the majority of cases where I haven't already tasted them.
Jenise
FLDG Dishwasher
42713
Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm
The Pacific Northest Westest
ChaimShraga wrote:David and Ben have more experience than me, but I'd like to present one point few people seem to note: Australia is not just a country, it's a fucking continent! I don't think even Parker had the power to dampen the variety a continent can provide.
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