Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

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Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Steven B » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:50 pm

Hi.

I just ordered a few bottles of the 2007 Tzuba Metsuda from an online store and when I opened the box I saw that it was the 2009 (the website makes no mention of the right to make vintage substitutions). Is this something I should make a fuss about? Has anyone tasted both vintages and have an opinion if one is better than the other?

Thanks for the help.
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby David Raccah » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:34 pm

Hello Steveee B!

I think the 2007 is a bit better, having had them both recently. That said, do not cry over the 2009 - it is a fine wine. If the 2007 is a true WOW (a- to A) wine, the 2009 is very close if not actually there as well. Both are big and bold, with the 2009 showing a bit of blue along with deep black notes, while the 2007 shows black, red and green notes.

David
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Steven B » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:15 pm

Thanks David.

I only paid $21 a bottle so I guess I shouldn't complain. Can you clarify what you mean by "blue notes"?
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Gabriel Geller » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:51 pm

Steven B wrote:Thanks David.

I only paid $21 a bottle so I guess I shouldn't complain. Can you clarify what you mean by "blue notes"?

LOL Dave and I had to clarify this quite a few times recently... :lol: He means notes of blueberries, blue fruit. Black stands of course for black fruit, blackberries, black cherries...
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby David Raccah » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:22 am

Steve B! Set you brother up my man! 21 bucks for the meztuda - nice going! Which truck's backside did you happen to pick these up from???
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Steven B » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:27 am

Jwines.com and its free shipping if you buy four or more bottles.
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Adam M » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:06 pm

Hi Steve - Despite much struggle, I've relegated this wine to a chunky near term drinking wine. This would suggest that, unless properly stored, the 07 would be in "drink now" mode. In theory, the winery is on the up and up, so subsequent vintages should have a good chance of being better, absent some kind of climate issue. Given that the grapes are sourced from essentially the same exact area as the Castel grape, I would be inclined to align my expectation with that of the results of the petit Castel. The 09 castels have received above average reviews, even better than 07, so I think you have a lot going for you. Enjoy it and please report back. The folks at the kibbutz are nice enough to deserve the accolades.
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Steven B » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:40 am

Hi Adam,

I very much enjoyed the 2009 Metsuda. Although the last time I tasted the 2007 was quite some time ago, from what I recall it was bigger, oakier and more fruity than the 2007 . While the 2009 is by no means subtle, I believe it is more so than the 2007, And I think the 2009 has more spice notes. As far as your concern about the drinking window, Rogov's drinking window was 2012-2015 and I believe David recently tasted it and said that it has another four years left in the tank.
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Adam M » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:02 am

Steve - not sure which vintage you were connecting with Rogov's window, but in many cases I've found his windows to be optimistic at best.
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Gabriel Geller » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:33 am

Adam M wrote:Steve - not sure which vintage you were connecting with Rogov's window, but in many cases I've found his windows to be optimistic at best.

At least in Israel I've noticed the exact opposite across the board (with some exceptions such as last weekend's Binyamina Diamond 07) that his windows were either right on or even pessimistic... :D

Steve, your comparative description of the 09 and 07 Metzuda could be well applied as well to the 07 and 09 Castel GV respectively. 8)
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Adam M » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:08 am

Gabriel - with regard to your experience with accuracy of drinking windows, I'd love to hear some examples of where you've been impressed that a particular wine was spot on. I will in turn, provide some counter examples.
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Gabriel Geller » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:30 pm

Adam M wrote:Gabriel - with regard to your experience with accuracy of drinking windows, I'd love to hear some examples of where you've been impressed that a particular wine was spot on. I will in turn, provide some counter examples.

Adam, I will provide 5 recent examples, 4 of which were wines that were past their drinking window in Rogov's book but were still drinking perfectly and one that was still far from it and yet was a bit past its peak:

The hits:

Binyamina Zinfandel Reserve 2007: Until 2011 according to Rogov. Had it 2 weeks ago. Was great, at its peak but not past it.

Ella Valley Muscat 2006: Until 2011. Had it about a month ago with Dave Raccah, he can testify that the wine is not going anywhere anytime soon. Really nice and surprisingly rich and complex.

Tishbi Estate Merlot 2005: Until 2010. Had several bottles in 2012 that were all in perfect drinking conditions though at their peak.

GHW, Yarden Blanc de Blancs 1998: Until 2007. Had it in March 2012 and was drinking beautifully.

The miss:

Binyamina, Avnei Hachoshen Diamond 2007: Until 2016. Was a bit past its peak, drinking fine yet but not for further cellaring.

Best,

GG
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Gabriel Geller » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:36 pm

As to the 2007 Metzuda I had it a few months ago and it was great and far from the end of its drinking window (2015).
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Adam M » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:14 am

Gabriel Geller wrote:
Adam M wrote:Gabriel - with regard to your experience with accuracy of drinking windows, I'd love to hear some examples of where you've been impressed that a particular wine was spot on. I will in turn, provide some counter examples.

Adam, I will provide 5 recent examples, 4 of which were wines that were past their drinking window in Rogov's book but were still drinking perfectly and one that was still far from it and yet was a bit past its peak:

The hits:

Binyamina Zinfandel Reserve 2007: Until 2011 according to Rogov. Had it 2 weeks ago. Was great, at its peak but not past it.

Ella Valley Muscat 2006: Until 2011. Had it about a month ago with Dave Raccah, he can testify that the wine is not going anywhere anytime soon. Really nice and surprisingly rich and complex.

Tishbi Estate Merlot 2005: Until 2010. Had several bottles in 2012 that were all in perfect drinking conditions though at their peak.

GHW, Yarden Blanc de Blancs 1998: Until 2007. Had it in March 2012 and was drinking beautifully.

The miss:

Binyamina, Avnei Hachoshen Diamond 2007: Until 2016. Was a bit past its peak, drinking fine yet but not for further cellaring.

Best,

GG


Hi Gabriel - cleaning up my to-dos before Pesach and I belatedly realized that I hadn't yet provided an in-kind response to your post:

In MY OWN experience, and as much as I hate to say this (as much as I have invested in them), the primary under-achieving winery according to Rogov's general assessment of drinking windows are the Yarden wines, particularly the single vineyard series. Numerous bottles of the '06 Tel Phares syrah have already shows signed of deterioration. As was an 07 Yonatan syrah that I opened this past Shabbat. Ditto on the 05 Tel Phares merlot. Ditto on an '05 cab that I tried to enjoy two weeks ago. Even the 04 El Rom, which I've had in my Eurocave since I purchased it fresh upon arrival, seemed to be barely holding on to its peak. So my personal view is the Rogov might have WAY overstated the cellaring ability of these wines. And not everyone has a Eurocave... I have also been disappointed in the lasting power of the 06 Recanati Special Reserve. The last two bottles that I have had over the last few months have showed signed of bitterness.


There are many overachievers based on Rogov's scale, namely:

1. Carmel Limited Edition. all the vintages have held up beyond Rogov's assessment.
2. Castel red wines - Particularly the grand vin I have found to outlast Rogov's assessment.
3. Hevron Heights Isaac's Ram.
4. Tabor Mescha 05
5. Carmel Zarit

If folks think this topic is interesting enough to make its owns thread, I can do a deeper dive into my mental notes and come up with numerous other examples.... My overall very general assessment is that the vast majority of kosher wines (there clearly are exceptions to this), even the "well made" and/or expensive ones, do in fact improve 1-3 years in the bottle, but really not much longer than that. And once the wine stops improving, I have found that period during which the peak condition is maintained to be far less than the level at which my expectations had been set by Rogov with his drinking windows.

My two argorot, for what they are worth....
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Yossie Horwitz » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:03 pm

Adam - I think you should move your post to another thread as I am sure many folks have what to contribute to this. I will add more later, but in the interim will point out that bottle of the same wine (the Recanati SRs come to mind) that I purchased in Israel, brought over by myself and stored have shown much better and lasted longer than many of the same bottles purchased here and then stored. The Yarden SVs are another prime example. If we could be a fly on a crate of SVs from the winery until it hits the retailer here, I am not sure we would be pleased...
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Isaac Chavel » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:12 pm

I have also been disappointed in the lasting power of the 06 Recanati Special Reserve. The last two bottles that I have had over the last few months have showed signed of bitterness.


On the one hand, uh-oh. On the other, I was planning on finishing my last bottle this Pesach.

Also, I plan to have, over Pesach, my last bottle of 2003 Yarden CS, the regular series. We'll see how that has fared.
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Re: Tzuba Metsuda: 2007 vs. 2009

Postby Yossie Horwitz » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:17 pm

Just for an example, I have enjoyed Yarden CS 1999 and 2000 recently (although the quality of the regular version took a nose dive starting in 2001 when they introduced the SV series and started cannibalizing the good fruit (forget about years like 2008 when they needed the best fruit for the Elrom, Rom AND Katzrin)...

My Recanati SR 2003, 2004 and 2005 all showed nicely in the last 12 months as well.
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