Craig Winchell wrote:Let's see more in that price and deliciousness range, dry red, and I will be happy.
David Raccah wrote:The sad thing, MYSELF especially, is that I have ZERO calibration. I know, or I think I know what is good in the kosher market. But what I may call an A- may well barely be a B+ in the non-kosher world. This is my problem and one I admit to openly. To be honest, early on, I calibrated much of my scoring to what Rogov and others scored, and then I applied my opinion and from there have taken the scoring without calibration. However, I have no real 5 pound weight to always calibrate against....the scores and the wines have improved in the past 7 years, but there is a VERY long road still till the region becomes a consistent QPR producer.
Joshua London wrote:Maybe the wineries should invest in kiruv organizations -- probably easier and cheaper to expand the number of Jews who drink kosher than to compete globally.
However, once those wines leave the confines of Israel, they will be hard pressed to succeeded. Margalit and vitkin and flam, with good worldwide scoring sold poorly in the states for a good reason, the market is saturated with solid wines for 40 bucks.
Craig Winchell wrote:Unfortunately or fortunately, the average wine quality is getting higher across the board, whether kosher or nonkosher, whether the wine originates from New South Wales, Walla Walla, Fresno, Texas Hill Country, the Ozarks, the English countryside , Brazil , Provence, Israel, or any of a vast number of wine producing areas either traditional or new. It becomes not a matter of production of world class wines, but rather the ability to compete with them locally or in the global marketplace. Every wine producing area should have its local wine drinking population driving the sales, better able to match the quality of wine with their pocketbooks (and while I was writing this, Gabe came out with the figure of 40%/60% local/export, or vice versa, but that seems like hyperbole to me, that the local market is as high even as 40% for Israeli wine, unless things have really changed dramatically and unbelievably since '81, when I was there last) . When one figures the QPR of wine after export, a host of factors complicate matters- cost of transportation, exchange rates and interest rates, where the producers, importers or retailers wish to position the wine relative to others. Higher price has always been looked upon as an indicator of quality. Winery owners have their pride like anyone else, and don't like their peers to be selling their top end wines for higher per-bottle prices, because they feel their wines to be just as good or better. From the consumer's perspective, also, he may be more willing to shell out $100 than $30, because under the circumstances he may feel that others will have a better perception of him, for whatever reason. Israeli wines may on the average be well priced locally, but high in the USA. Or there could be inflated prices locally due to national pride. One thing is certain, however. Wine only costs a certain amount to produce, and it is instructive to treat it initially as a commodity, and assuming quality which can carry the price, basing minimum selling price upon a livable margin. In the export market, however, price must be determined by what it will take to sell the wine in that market. There may be times that it just doesn't pay to export, because the wine will be priced too high unless it is sold by the winery below cost of production, while at other more favorable times, it may be possible to realize spectacular margins. By the same token, the local market may determine that one wine consistently is better than another, and consumers are willing to pay a premium for it. That doesn't always translate to the export market, especially when the wine is competing not only with its next-door neighboring winery, but also that of a winery halfway around the world. Argentina and Chile are producing world-class wines, in the low end. They are also producing them in the high-end. It's pretty difficult to compete with them on the high end, because their currencies are low relative to almost any other, and their economies are depressed. The question is not whether Israeli wines are good, but whether they can sell, and what are the barriers to sales success. I think about this a lot, and I come to the conclusion that the biggest barrier to sales in general is that there is little, but growing domestic market capable of absorbing only a small portion of the Israeli production, so they are dependent upon the US market, where everyone else is competing as well (the largest wine market in the world). And the next barrier to success is pride- of winery owners wanting to position their wines against their Israeli peers, and the wines they perceive as their quality peers on a global level. And the thing which opens up the market is the strong relationship Jews in general and observant Jews in particular have with Israel, and the desire for its prosperity. That relationship does not typically exist in general in the USA.
Daniel Kovnat wrote:This has been such a fantastic discussion that I just discovered.
fSo why is it that Israeli wines are priced so high relative to the rest of the world? Are the production costs here so much greater than other countries? We sure do have to pay more for fuel than the U.S. On the other hand, the cost of fuel in France and Italy is the same as ours? Are labor costs higher here? OR is it that the wineries are selling at a higher profit margin and putting more into the bank?
Are shipping costs so high as to make a $25 bottle of wine when sold here cost $35 in the United States?
As long as there are customers willing to pay that high price, there is little reason for the producers to lower their prices. But if, as, and when the supply of wine at the winery builds up because of excessive production or lack of sales, then the price of our Israeli wines will fall and Israel will compete favorably for that customer looking for QPR.
Adam N wrote:Israeli wineries, by international standards are pretty small and all the costs that normally amortize over many bottles are spread over less bottles causing a higher per bottle cost. These costs are ones such as labor,label design, shipping, machinery, ect.....
When it comes to commercially exporting a wine from here to the U.S., the increase from COST price is roughly anywhere from %300 TO %350. i.e. if an importer pays $10 per bottle, because of U.S. 3 tier system, Liq laws, and taxes, expect to see it on the shelf from $29.99 to $34.99.
hope this helps
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