Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

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Re: Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

Postby Hoke » Mon May 30, 2011 9:27 pm

self deleted
Last edited by Hoke on Mon May 30, 2011 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

Postby Robin Garr » Mon May 30, 2011 9:46 pm

Hmm, I tried to delete one of Nigel's duplicate posts, and it seems they both disappeared when I did so. A system glitch, I suppose, but apologies to Nigel ... certainly no censorship was intended!
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Re: Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

Postby Mark Lipton » Tue May 31, 2011 12:20 am

Robin Garr wrote:Hmm, I tried to delete one of Nigel's duplicate posts, and it seems they both disappeared when I did so. A system glitch, I suppose, but apologies to Nigel ... certainly no censorship was intended!


A likely excuse, Robin, you censorious Internet Nazi. I'm going to start my own wine forum now and no longer grace this cesspool. Oh, and Happy Memorial Day, big guy! :D

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Re: Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

Postby Nigel Groundwater » Tue May 31, 2011 4:13 am

Robin Garr wrote:Hmm, I tried to delete one of Nigel's duplicate posts, and it seems they both disappeared when I did so. A system glitch, I suppose, but apologies to Nigel ... certainly no censorship was intended!

Robin, as I indicated in my note I could not delete one of my duplicates which kept appearing in tandem despite only pressing the submit button once. What I didn't say was that each time I deleted a duplicate it removed both - as you discovered. I assume Hoke, to whom I was responding, discovered the same problem in view of his two self-deleted posts. I assume the difference between his two remaining posts and my complete deletion was that he used the edit function and I [and subsequently Robin] used the delete function which removed not only the duplicate but the primary post.

The system glitch seems to have disappeared since Robin and Mark's subsequent posts are not duplicated.

My post [to repeat it] was as follows and it was preceded by an explanation of and apology for the duplicate which wouldn't go away without losing both.

"
Hoke wrote:
but the stats [alcohol related liver disease in particular] show that an increasing number of people of both sexes , from an already substantial base, are drinking more than is healthy and in an also increasing number, much more than is healthy.

This of course conforms to the bureaucratic tendency to always apply a shotgun approach when precision marksmanship may be more appropriate, Nigel. :?

Que? "Conforms to a bureaucratic tendency"? A 'confused' emoticon seems appropriate Hoke since I made no comment as to approach, shotgun or otherwise, but simply wished to identify with Jim's piece.
There is a problem and it's getting worse. I am not saying that Governments are communicating adequately but I am saying that there is an increasing problem that requires some action - certainly in the UK. There are some who prefer to equivocate on that simple statement by pointing out how individual requirements deviate from an average although it might be more helpful to propose a message and advice more appropriate for individual circumstances - assuming of course that you agree that there is a problem in the first place.
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Re: Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

Postby Hoke » Tue May 31, 2011 1:04 pm

Nigel, I deleted my post (albeit only one post) after Robin inadvertently deleted your posts, figuring that a response to a non-existent post was strange.

My now-deleted post was, as I best recall, indicating that the comment was not in regard to what you specifically had said, but in regard to what others had said about the tendency of a control agency in government---a bureaucracy---to respond in a wholesale manner---or shotgun approach---without regard to individual cases.

I can see, by the tenor and fervor of your response, that you are personally invested in reform issues on this subject; I, on the other hand, am at a distance (i.e., I don't really know what's going on in the UK on this issue so can't speak from an informed position).

As I responded to Tim on this matter, nowhere have I seen any comments on the why of this issue: if bad drinking habits are increasing (sometimes it is reported as merely over-consumption; sometimes it is specifically reported as 'binge drinking'), WHY? Seems to me knowing the reasons for a behavior would be the first step in attempting to correct or remediate that behavior. So far I've heard "We have a problem" but I haven't heard "...and these are the reasons why we have a problem."
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Re: Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

Postby Nigel Groundwater » Tue May 31, 2011 2:35 pm

Hoke wrote:Nigel, I deleted my post (albeit only one post) after Robin inadvertently deleted your posts, figuring that a response to a non-existent post was strange.

My now-deleted post was, as I best recall, indicating that the comment was not in regard to what you specifically had said, but in regard to what others had said about the tendency of a control agency in government---a bureaucracy---to respond in a wholesale manner---or shotgun approach---without regard to individual cases.

I can see, by the tenor and fervor of your response, that you are personally invested in reform issues on this subject; I, on the other hand, am at a distance (i.e., I don't really know what's going on in the UK on this issue so can't speak from an informed position).

As I responded to Tim on this matter, nowhere have I seen any comments on the why of this issue: if bad drinking habits are increasing (sometimes it is reported as merely over-consumption; sometimes it is specifically reported as 'binge drinking'), WHY? Seems to me knowing the reasons for a behavior would be the first step in attempting to correct or remediate that behavior. So far I've heard "We have a problem" but I haven't heard "...and these are the reasons why we have a problem."

Hmmm. I am not sure about "tenor and fervor" since I was simply stating a fact and agreeing with Jim Cowan's earlier post. :mrgreen:
If by those terms you imply that those who believe there is a growing problem with alcohol abuse that is having an increasingly negative impact on individuals and society as a whole are 'fervent' then I guess I am fervent although I don't recognise it as an appropriate term in those circumstances. And I would have thought the tenor of my response was unremarkable.

As regards your question 'why' it could be answered facetiously e.g. the problem is that people are increasingly obese and ill from over-consumption of food and alcohol and the why of it is because they put it down their neck too often and in too great a quantity.

Or more searchingly by examining the changes in society that may have prompted or encouraged such behaviours. The consumption of hard drugs might fall naturally into a similar study. If you were suggesting the more rigorous approach to 'why' I hardly think the thread that would result from such a debate would fit easily into a wine forum.

In addition such a discussion [inside or outside a wine forum] would hardly be worthwhile without some agreement that there was a problem in first place and it isn't clear to me that is agreed.

I thought inter alia that Jim was drawing that line and I posted to agree with him.

As far as providing some guidelines to help people understand the dangers to health of excessive consumption [just one of many possible responses] it would be useful to come up with something that was relevant to every individual. However given the enormous difference between individuals and their circumstances you also know how difficult that would be which is probably why we have the current general guidelines differentiated only by gender.

Nevertheless, as has been suggested in this thread, there may well be better ways to provide that information than those currently in place. And other ways that approach the problem from different angles such as education, taxation, the law etc etc.
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Re: Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

Postby Hoke » Tue May 31, 2011 2:54 pm

So by applying my sieve your answers as to "why" are

--it's simple; people drink too much.

--it's too complex to deal with here.
:D

Again, since I am at a remove on this matter, I don't know the politics (and social politics) of the suspected causes of the behavior. Therefore I can't determine the quality of the approach to address the problem.

I also don't clearly understand why people would be denying there is a problem---unless perhaps it's akin to the climate change deniers: if there's no problem we don't have to spend money to fix jt?

But I'm content to leave it where it is, as just another in a long list of things I don't know and don't understand. :)
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Re: Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

Postby Paul Winalski » Tue May 31, 2011 9:48 pm

Well lah-dee-dah!!

I suppose they'd rather we were doing crank or ecstasy.

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Re: Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?

Postby Shlomo R » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:27 am

As a member of Generation X, I'll venture into the discussion by sayin that if the Boomers are drinking too much, their kids in Gen X are taking it a step further.
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