Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
"I see seniors and retirees doing all sorts of things to preserve their brain function and then drinking a glass of wine or a bottle a night," Rankin told MarketWatch.com. "That’s the worst thing you can do."
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11175
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Robin Garr wrote:Feds ask: Do Baby Boomers drink too much?
Keith M
Beer Explorer
1184
Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 am
Finger Lakes, New York
Mark Lipton wrote:1. No effort is made to take into account what amounts to a "moderate" consumption level for various body sizes, ages, etc.
2. Because of this, what many would consider a moderate consumption level (187.5 ml of wine 4-5x weekly) gets classified as "heavy" drinking with all of its associated baggage.
3. No attempt is made to take into account patterns of consumption: is alcohol consumed with meals? over what length of time is alcohol consumed?
4. No information is provided about the actual relationship of various health risks or, conversely, health benefits to the amount of alcohol consumed. How much is cancer risk increased by changing 5 oz of wine per day to 10 oz? Let's see the actual data.
Keith M wrote:Interesting. I didn't feel like the website ignored any of the issues you mentioned, Mark. Though perhaps the focus of the website and the public outreach might not have been crafted to address those questions.Mark Lipton wrote:1. No effort is made to take into account what amounts to a "moderate" consumption level for various body sizes, ages, etc.
Research shows that women start to have alcohol-related problems at lower drinking levels than men do. One reason is that, on average, women weigh less than men. In addition, alcohol disperses in body water, and pound for pound, women have less water in their bodies than men do. So after a man and woman of the same weight drink the same amount of alcohol, the woman's blood alcohol concentration will tend to be higher, putting her at greater risk for harm.
2. Because of this, what many would consider a moderate consumption level (187.5 ml of wine 4-5x weekly) gets classified as "heavy" drinking with all of its associated baggage.
For healthy adults in general, drinking more than these single-day or weekly limits is considered "at-risk" or "heavy" drinking:
• Men: More than 4 drinks on any day or 14 per week
• Women: More than 3 drinks on any day or 7 per week
3. No attempt is made to take into account patterns of consumption: is alcohol consumed with meals? over what length of time is alcohol consumed?
Include food. Don't drink on an empty stomach. Eat some food so the alcohol will be absorbed into your system more slowly.
Pace yourself. Sip slowly so that you have no more than one standard drink with alcohol per hour. Have "drink spacers"—make every other drink a non-alcoholic one, such as water, soda, or juice. Note that it takes about 2 hours for the adult body to completely break down a single drink.
4. No information is provided about the actual relationship of various health risks or, conversely, health benefits to the amount of alcohol consumed. How much is cancer risk increased by changing 5 oz of wine per day to 10 oz? Let's see the actual data.
As I alluded to above, the aim of the public outreach is clearly toward minimizing the harm caused by heavy drinking, rather than parsing out relationships that exist between alcohol and health at moderate drinking levels.
You may have heard that regular light to moderate drinking can be good for the heart. With heavy or at-risk drinking, however, any potential benefits are outweighed by greater risks, including [yadda yadda yadda]
The first line I read on the website is "How much alcohol is too much" and it's clear to me that the public outreach and website are addressed toward that issue as a legitimate public health issue rather than the broader relationship between alcohol consumption and health that you and many other winelovers might be interested in.
Florida Jim
Wine guru
1253
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:27 pm
St. Pete., FL & Sonoma, CA
Keith M
Beer Explorer
1184
Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 am
Finger Lakes, New York
Mark Lipton wrote:But, looking at the recommendations seen below, they are lumping a 140 lb man in with a 220 lb man, despite the fact that there's a 55% increase in body mass and a resulting change in the absorption and metabolism of alcohol. So, perhaps we can agree that the recommendations are overly simplistic? It wouldn't have been overly difficult to divide up humanity into 4 or 5 weight groups rather than the misleading man/woman divide.
Additionally, looking at their recommendations, men can drink 33% more on a daily basis but 50% more on a weekly basis??? Forgive me if I begin to question the science behind those numbers when I see such a disparity.
This is at odds, though, with their calculator, in which the numbers I report were classified as heavy drinking. Specifically, it commented that, in response to the answer that I'd had more than 4 "standard" drinks at least once in the past year, I drank more than the daily or weekly limits. That statement is flatly incorrect.
3. No attempt is made to take into account patterns of consumption: is alcohol consumed with meals? over what length of time is alcohol consumed?
Include food. Don't drink on an empty stomach. Eat some food so the alcohol will be absorbed into your system more slowly.
Pace yourself. Sip slowly so that you have no more than one standard drink with alcohol per hour. Have "drink spacers"—make every other drink a non-alcoholic one, such as water, soda, or juice. Note that it takes about 2 hours for the adult body to completely break down a single drink.
So, how do those changes affect the recommendations given above? Are four shots of vodka in 30 min. really as acceptable as a bottle of Riesling Kabinett consumed over the course of a 3.5 hour meal?
Keith M
Beer Explorer
1184
Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 am
Finger Lakes, New York
Mark Lipton wrote:But, looking at the recommendations seen below, they are lumping a 140 lb man in with a 220 lb man, despite the fact that there's a 55% increase in body mass and a resulting change in the absorption and metabolism of alcohol. So, perhaps we can agree that the recommendations are overly simplistic? It wouldn't have been overly difficult to divide up humanity into 4 or 5 weight groups rather than the misleading man/woman divide.
Additionally, looking at their recommendations, men can drink 33% more on a daily basis but 50% more on a weekly basis??? Forgive me if I begin to question the science behind those numbers when I see such a disparity.
This is at odds, though, with their calculator, in which the numbers I report were classified as heavy drinking. Specifically, it commented that, in response to the answer that I'd had more than 4 "standard" drinks at least once in the past year, I drank more than the daily or weekly limits. That statement is flatly incorrect.
3. No attempt is made to take into account patterns of consumption: is alcohol consumed with meals? over what length of time is alcohol consumed?
Include food. Don't drink on an empty stomach. Eat some food so the alcohol will be absorbed into your system more slowly.
Pace yourself. Sip slowly so that you have no more than one standard drink with alcohol per hour. Have "drink spacers"—make every other drink a non-alcoholic one, such as water, soda, or juice. Note that it takes about 2 hours for the adult body to completely break down a single drink.
So, how do those changes affect the recommendations given above? Are four shots of vodka in 30 min. really as acceptable as a bottle of Riesling Kabinett consumed over the course of a 3.5 hour meal?
Florida Jim wrote:For purposes of this discussion, let's just assume that the article has a slant and that we can pick it apart all day long
Nobody gets out of here alive.
Do what you do, try not to hurt anybody else, give your excesses some thought if you can and please, quit the holier than thou crap.
Oh yes; and buy the motorcycle if you can afford it.
Best, Jim
Florida Jim
Wine guru
1253
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:27 pm
St. Pete., FL & Sonoma, CA
Lou Kessler wrote:Florida Jim wrote:For purposes of this discussion, let's just assume that the article has a slant and that we can pick it apart all day long
Nobody gets out of here alive.
Do what you do, try not to hurt anybody else, give your excesses some thought if you can and please, quit the holier than thou crap.
Oh yes; and buy the motorcycle if you can afford it.
Best, Jim
Many years ago while driving a motorcycle I had an arguement with a streetcar at an intersection in Los Angeles, an arguement that I lost badly. I love your written bit until the topic of motorcycles came up.
Mike Filigenzi
Known for his fashionable hair
8187
Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:43 pm
Sacramento, CA
Daniel Rogov
Resident Curmudgeon
0
Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:10 am
Tel Aviv, Israel
Bob Henrick
Kamado Kommander
3919
Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:35 pm
Lexington, Ky.
Bob Henrick wrote:Recently I had an appointment with a new (to me) doctor. Included in the jump through the hoops and tell all, was the question(s) do you drink alcohol? And, how much? My answers were yes, and 1, the nurse noticed my answer and asked about it. I told her that I seldom drink anything at all, except dinner wine. She then concluded that I drink one glass of wine per day. I corrected her by saying "some days that is true, but other days I might drink the whole bottle. I didn't go on to explain that the consumption of a bottle usually takes 5 or more hours. I am 72 years old, and I ENJOY wine. Don't smoke, don't chase women, don't hang out in smokey bars or pool halls, don't take a gun into the woods, don't watch a lot of tv. My point is that at 72 years of age and given the life span of an American male is 75 years and 2 months, I am not jumping through hoops to please demagogue types who believe their ways are the chosen ways. If one doesn't believe them, just ask them. Do I drink too much wine? I probably do. Am I going to change because someone said I should? Probably not. And if I told the whole truth, I am as much or more concerned about the number of wine calories I consume than I am of the amount of wine alcohol I consume. Let the arrows fly.
Bob Henrick wrote:Recently I had an appointment with a new (to me) doctor. Included in the jump through the hoops and tell all, was the question(s) do you drink alcohol? And, how much? My answers were yes, and 1, the nurse noticed my answer and asked about it. I told her that I seldom drink anything at all, except dinner wine. She then concluded that I drink one glass of wine per day. I corrected her by saying "some days that is true, but other days I might drink the whole bottle. I didn't go on to explain that the consumption of a bottle usually takes 5 or more hours. I am 72 years old, and I ENJOY wine. Don't smoke, don't chase women, don't hang out in smokey bars or pool halls, don't take a gun into the woods, don't watch a lot of tv. My point is that at 72 years of age and given the life span of an American male is 75 years and 2 months, I am not jumping through hoops to please demagogue types who believe their ways are the chosen ways. If one doesn't believe them, just ask them. Do I drink too much wine? I probably do. Am I going to change because someone said I should? Probably not. And if I told the whole truth, I am as much or more concerned about the number of wine calories I consume than I am of the amount of wine alcohol I consume. Let the arrows fly.
Bob Henrick wrote:My point is that at 72 years of age and given the life span of an American male is 75 years and 2 months,
Bob Henrick
Kamado Kommander
3919
Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:35 pm
Lexington, Ky.
Given the price of renting a golf cart Lou, I suppose she could carry your clubs for you!Lou Kessler wrote: I'm with you Bob except I don't chase women because I'm afraid I might catch one. Then what would I do?
Bob Henrick
Kamado Kommander
3919
Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:35 pm
Lexington, Ky.
Robin Garr wrote:You might have a few more years left than that, Bob!
That's the average life span of an American infant at birth. At 72, you've got an average expectation of 12 more years to enjoy your wine.
Try this calculator - pull the bar at the upper left over to your current age to come up with the details:
http://life-span.findthebest.com/
All that said, I expect that over-indulgence in wine or food could put a finger on the scales as far as mortality (and more important, overall health) is concerned; and of course, none of us know the day or the hour that we'll pass on - we might win or lose against the averages. But if you're trying to play the odds, at your age you're looking at 12 more years, not just 3 more years.
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