Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
Daniel Rogov wrote:Hoke....
Just to be perfectly clear on this.....I will never fully die. I intend to leave an automated machine behind that will periodically post about my luddite/curmudgeonly/out-and-out-stubborn insistence on the good things of life.
And no fear, that automated machine, like me, will take pleasure in occasional exageration.
Best
Rogov
Oswaldo Costa wrote:Though we've had this debate several times before, each incarnation seems to provide additional points. The focus of this discussion has been TCA, but premox has been a much bigger problem for me. Not only in my experience, but also in what it does to my buying & consumption: I hate that I won't allow myself to buy older white burgundy because I've been burned too many times. The failure rate is way over the percentages discussed above! I would like an enclosure, any enclosure, with the rate of oxygen ingress allowed by a "perfect" cork (surely known by the boffins at UC-Davis) without the risks of using a real cork. Even if such risk is brought down to 1%, why should I accept that if the technology already exists for a 0% enclosure failure rate? Just for the greater but fearful pleasure of hearing that pop? I prefer the smaller but fearless pleasure of hearing that scrunch.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Covert wrote:Daniel Rogov wrote:Hoke....
Just to be perfectly clear on this.....I will never fully die. I intend to leave an automated machine behind that will periodically post about my luddite/curmudgeonly/out-and-out-stubborn insistence on the good things of life.
And no fear, that automated machine, like me, will take pleasure in occasional exageration.
Best
Rogov
Daniel, I don't know if you would like to add obscurantist to your list. That's one I use for my self with regard to corks and screwy metal caps.
Covert
Main Entry: obscure
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: not easily understood
Synonyms: abstruse, ambiguous, arcane, clear as mud, complicated, concealed, confusing, cryptic, dark, deep, dim, doubtful, enigmatic, enigmatical, esoteric, far-out, hazy, hidden, illegible, illogical, impenetrable, incomprehensible, inconceivable, incredible, indecisive, indefinite, indeterminate, indistinct, inexplicable, inscrutable, insoluble, intricate, involved, mysterious, occult, opaque, recondite, unaccountable, unbelievable, unclear, undefined, unfathomable, unintelligible, vague
Antonyms: apparent, clear, explicit, obvious, perceptible, understood
Daniel Rogov
Resident Curmudgeon
0
Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:10 am
Tel Aviv, Israel
Covert wrote:...Daniel, I don't know if you would like to add obscurantist to your list. That's one I use for my self with regard to corks and screwy metal caps.
Daniel Rogov wrote:With thanks to Hoke for his use of the thesaurus and to Bob Dylan for saying it for me:
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
However I don't think it was unfair to characterise your post as claiming that the screwcap was the ultimate closure - end of story. At least that's how it read to me and I am not sure the conclusion to your second post changes that although your response to Victorwine might at least open the door to alternatives.
[selfishly edited for previously poor spelling]I believe the screwcap has established enough momentum, and provided enough advantages, as to convince producers their product is better under screwcaps than under cork (or other alternatives).
2. Screwcaps create a better, more consistent, more long term reliable seal to the precious commodity inside.
I believe the screwcap has established enough momentum, and provided enough advantages, as to convince producers their product is better under screwcaps than under cork (or other alternatives).
2. Screwcaps create a better, more consistent, more long term reliable seal to the precious commodity inside.
It is more respectful of the wine, the producer, and the investor/consumer. It is also, in my view, a more ethical closure.
Pretty emphatic surely.I base my decision on my belief that screwcaps are the best existing closure for wine. Whether long or short term. Whether white or red.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Hoke wrote: We apparently approach this from two different points, however: you seem to be saying that we shouldn't be making any changes until all the information is in and there is not a shadow of a doubt that screwcaps are in every way preferable to cork (status quo); whereas my approach is that all the information will never be in, there will always be pros and cons to be waged, and it is incumbent upon me to decide---for myself---which is my preferred closure. And I have made that decision. For now. I see no particular reason to cling to an outmoded form of closure that has a proven failure rate, when something else is available and I am satisfied with it.
Graeme Gee wrote:Like a moth to the flame...
But,Hoke wrote: We apparently approach this from two different points, however: you seem to be saying that we shouldn't be making any changes until all the information is in and there is not a shadow of a doubt that screwcaps are in every way preferable to cork (status quo); whereas my approach is that all the information will never be in, there will always be pros and cons to be waged, and it is incumbent upon me to decide---for myself---which is my preferred closure. And I have made that decision. For now. I see no particular reason to cling to an outmoded form of closure that has a proven failure rate, when something else is available and I am satisfied with it.
Think of me as standing half a step behind Hoke, echoing every syllable; but the above phrase puts it most succinctly of all.
cheers,
Graeme
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34412
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Nigel Groundwater wrote:
BTW you may recall an earlier thread in another place where the claim was made [not by you but you joined the argument] that Grange was available under screwcap. I have the following response from Penfolds:
“Thank you for taking the time to contact us at Penfolds.
There is no Grange under screwcap and we have no intention of changing over from cork at this point in time.
All Penfolds white wines are now bottled under screw-cap, as is a wide range of our premium red wines. Many of our premium reds (including RWT, Bin 707, St Henri and Bin 389) are bottled under both cork and screw-cap - the availability of which is market dependent. I don't have exact percentages as it varies from wine to wine and from market to market.
Please contact us again should you have any further queries we can assist you with.”
This seems to illustrate a pretty balanced view from a committed-to-screwcap winemaker which still recognises the realities including the uncertainties at this stage in the closure debate.
David M. Bueker wrote:I would disagree with your interpretation of the Penfolds e-mail. Several of the wines where a screwcap is used for some of the production (RWT, Bin 707) are long aging red wines. I am more inclined to believe that the decision is marketing/market acceptance-based & has little to do with uncertainties over the quality of screw caps as a closure.
David M. Bueker wrote:Nigel Groundwater wrote:I would disagree with your interpretation of the Penfolds e-mail. Several of the wines where a screwcap is used for some of the production (RWT, Bin 707) are long aging red wines. I am more inclined to believe that the decision is marketing/market acceptance-based & has little to do with uncertainties over the quality of screw caps as a closure.
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34412
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
David M. Bueker wrote:Nigel,
Maybe it's because you are always ableto change your interpretation to make anyone who questions you clearly wrong in their analysis.
You put words in other peoples' mouths/posts, but if we do an analysis of your postings it's somehow disingenuous.
Debating with you is potentially illustrative, but generally annoying.
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34412
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
David Glasser wrote:
I reject the argument that there hasn't been enough study of screwcaps for producers to start using them, even for long-term agers.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Victorwine wrote:Hoke wrote;
……..whereas my approach is that all the information will never be in,……
Why do you say this Hoke? Man is going to stop being man? For centuries man has been asking- How? Why? And When? We might not get to the “truth” but at least we will have a better understanding.
Salute
Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot and 1 guest