WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

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WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Bill Buitenhuys » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:42 am

2004 Loosen Bros. Dr. L, Riesling QbA (Mosel)
$11. 8.5% abv. Imp: Classic. Screwcap.
Nice off-dry quaffer. There is more heft to this wine since last having it 7 or 8 months ago. The fruit is all bright and the acidity is still very well balanced.

2004 Karl Joh. Molitor Hattenheimer Heiligenberg Riesling Kabinett (Rheingau)
#016 05 $11. Imp: Classic. Cork.
Flavorful enough but lacking in acidity. Disappointing.
Three days (in the fridge) later, the acidity is more noticeable and it's somewhat refreshing.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Bob Parsons Alberta » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:54 am

Ah, the Rheingau Bill. As usual, you mention wines and I think it is time to pull something similar from the cellar!!
Going up north today to check on the dogs, it only forecast for 32 degrees today!!
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Sam Platt » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:19 am

Bill,

We've been drinking a couple bottles of the '04 "Dr. L" per month since February. At about $10 per bottle (case) it is an outstanding value. Excellent balance of the citrus and mineral character with a smooth finish. Can't say I've noticed a huge change on the palate from February, but the nose does seem to be intensifying a bit. "Dr. L" has become our house Riesling.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Bill Buitenhuys » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:16 pm

Sam wrote:"Dr. L" has become our house Riesling.
It really is a good deal and worth stocking up on.

Doris wrote:As usual, you mention wines and I think it is time to pull something similar from the cellar
But you'll probably pull a Rheingau from the early 80's! :wink:
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby David M. Bueker » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:05 pm

The Dr. L is outclassed by wines like the Kesseler 'R' and Estate QbA in my opinion. Gysler's liter bottlings of Scheurebe and Silvaner also have much greater character per drop. Throw in the Strub, Messmer and Minges liter bottles and you have quite a list. Sure Dr. L has wide availability, but I really don't think it's much of a wine.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Dave Erickson » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:28 pm

Here's another bargain-priced riesling, with a good pedigree: Royal Rheingau Riesling (price around $10) is made with fruit from the vineyards of Prinz von Hessen, Count von Schonborn and Baron Lengwerth von Simmern. Von Hessen is one of the oldest Johannisberg producers; Schonborn is a reputable producer with vineyards all around the Rheinhessen; and von Simmern, after years of decline, is back on track. So the heritage, so to speak, is good. The wine itself is not quite a trocken, but nearly so, with good citrus and apple flavors and appropriate minerality.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby David M. Bueker » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:22 pm

The heritage of the Royal Rheingau Riesling may be good, but that's all their cast off grapes. It also totally obscures and recognizable terroir (at least based on my one taste), where with an inexpensive estate bottled QbA or kabinett (or trocken) you at least get what German Riesling is supposed to give: a clear window into the grape and the place.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Dave Erickson » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:40 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:The heritage of the Royal Rheingau Riesling may be good, but that's all their cast off grapes. It also totally obscures and recognizable terroir (at least based on my one taste), where with an inexpensive estate bottled QbA or kabinett (or trocken) you at least get what German Riesling is supposed to give: a clear window into the grape and the place.


I don't disagree, at all! On the other hand, inexpensive QbA wines are usually bargains for a reason: They're not very good, no matter how much terroir they display.

Also, doesn't a wine have to be QMP in order to specify ripeness (e.g., kabinett, spatlese, etc.)?

Finally, the RRR people might dispute your characterizing their fruit as "castoff." The way they tell it (yes, of course they're self-serving) they decided to combine their fruit so they could put out a volume product of good quality at a reasonable price. I happen to think they've done that. Your results may differ, of course. :D
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby David M. Bueker » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:53 am

Dave Erickson wrote:On the other hand, inexpensive QbA wines are usually bargains for a reason: They're not very good, no matter how much terroir they display.


Here's where I seriously beg to differ. There are some wonderful, terroir specific QbAs out there at bargain proces. Things like the Messmer QbA Halbtrocken, the Gysler Weinheimer Holle Silvaner (or Scheurebe) Halbtrocken, the Kesseler Estate QbA, etc. QbA is a category that (from good growers) has been unfairly maligned due to things like Blue Nun and Black Tower.

And on the QmP point, I wasn't trying to say there was such a thing as QbA Kabientt. Sorry if there was any confusion.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Alan Uchrinscko » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:01 am

Gysler = Yummy
Gysler = Cheap
Hence,
Gysler = Yummy & Cheap
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby David M. Bueker » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:30 am

Alan Uchrinscko wrote:Gysler = Yummy
Gysler = Cheap
Hence,
Gysler = Yummy & Cheap


Exactly!

Oh you forgot one...

Gysler=Consistent

So Gysler=Yummy, Cheap & Consistent=Blind Buy
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Sam Platt » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:03 am

David wrote:The Dr. L is outclassed by wines like the Kesseler 'R' and Estate QbA in my opinion


David, I'm afraid I can't agree on that one. I find the Kesseler wines to possess little of the subtlety that I enjoy in a Riesling. His style seems over done and somewhat harsh to me. Additionally, the August Kesseler Estate QbA runs $16.00 around here. Not worth a $6.00 premium over the Dr. L in my opinion.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby David M. Bueker » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:40 am

Sam Platt wrote:
David wrote:The Dr. L is outclassed by wines like the Kesseler 'R' and Estate QbA in my opinion


David, I'm afraid I can't agree on that one. I find the Kesseler wines to possess little of the subtlety that I enjoy in a Riesling. His style seems over done and somewhat harsh to me. Additionally, the August Kesseler Estate QbA runs $16.00 around here. Not worth a $6.00 premium over the Dr. L in my opinion.


$16??? Highway robbery. That's an absolute disgrace. It's $9.00 in my market. You know that August Kesseler is making the same amount of money from either sale, so you have one seriously gouging distribution chain.

As for the subtlety, that's your call. I will not dispute your palate preferences, but I find the Kesseler QbAs to be quite elegant, in contrast to the bigger style of his QmP wines.

The Dr. L I find to be very simple.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Bill Buitenhuys » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:48 am

I find the Kesseler wines to possess little of the subtlety that I enjoy in a Riesling.
Sam, this is where we diverge with stylistic preference, I think. I like the Dr. L specifically because it is plump and has more perceived (or actual) residual sugar than the Kesseler or the Messmer halbtrocken. I find it is much less subtle than the Kesseler Estate but I like it for what it is and that is a fatter qpr riesling that is refreshing. Dollar for dollar I'd go with Kesseler Estate (which is actually slightly cheaper than Dr. L around here) but Dr. L has it's place for me as well.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Sam Platt » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Bill wrote:I find it is much less subtle than the Kesseler Estate but I like it for what it is and that is a fatter qpr riesling that is refreshing.


David wrote:As for the subtlety, that's your call. I will not dispute your palate preferences, but I find the Kesseler QbAs to be quite elegant


Are you guys questiong my authority? I hope so, because it helps me to calibrate my palate. :)

I actually noted a "bacon" character in the 2002 Kesseler QbA that I tasted. It was a real irritant. That bottle had quite a hard edge to it which turned me off.

I agree that the Dr. L is not "elegant". Certainly not when compared to Prum, Diel, and other of my favorite producers. My "subtlety" might be your "simplicity", but as a summer dinner sipper I really enjoy the Dr. L.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Dale Williams » Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:08 pm

I can't compare with the Kesseler which I haven't had, but but me in the camp of those who find the Loosen good QPR- a friendly puppy style of wine.
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Bill Buitenhuys » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:06 pm

Are you guys questiong my authority?
I've got a new avatar for you, Sam. :wink:

[img]http://home.btconnect.com/Beta-Research-0/cartman.jpg[/img]
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Redwinger » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:34 pm

Perhaps by coincidence, a rep dropped off a sample bottle of the 2005 Dr. L for us to try earlier today. Initially we tried it room temperature and it was all about Del Monte canned pear juice. I figured a chill on the bottle would bring up some acidity....nope, just chilled canned Del Monte pear juice.

FWIW, since I have never tasted the 2004 Dr. L.

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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Sam Platt » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:01 pm

Bill wrote:I've got a new avatar for you, Sam.


Bill, I was thinking of Cartman when I wrote the original post. I probably should have used the "Authoritaaa!" spelling.

Curly-Bill wrote:....nope, just chilled canned Del Monte pear juice.


Come on now, Bill. I'll admit that it's not the most complex Riesling ever fermented from German grapes, but "pear juice"? It's a nice Riesling for daily drinking with food. As I believe Dave mentioned, its a "simple" wine at a good QPR, but I could still tell it from Del Monte pear juice. Unless perhaps a half-shot of vodka was added to the pear juice. :wink:
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Redwinger » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:07 pm

Sam,
I can't comment on the 2004 Dr L. Never tasted it!
My impressions were on the 2005.
We do need to taste together sometime. That would be fun...no?
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Sam Platt » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:34 pm

Bill, I haven't tasted the '05 Dr. L yet myself. I don't think that I've seen one yet. Based on my experience with the '04, and Dr. L from other model years, I would be very disappointed if I got pure pear juice.

Yes, we should try to link up some time for a tasting. Perhaps we can arrange something in the fall. I would be happy to dust off a couple of my favorites. Perhaps there would be enough local interest that some others would want to join an informal get together?
Sam

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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby David M. Bueker » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:27 am

As much as I hate the Dr. L, I may actually have to try it just to see if I can call it pear juice. :twisted:
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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby Sam Platt » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:38 am

David Bueker wrote:As much as I hate the Dr. L, I may actually have to try it just to see if I can call it pear juice.


David, Do you hate the "Dr. L" on general principles alone? I can't say I've ever hated a wine that I haven't tried. Perhaps I'm parsing your sentence incorrectly. Remember, there is a chance that you just might like it as an $11 sipper.
Sam

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Re: WTN: Two Inexpensive 2004 German Rieslings

Postby David M. Bueker » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:49 am

I should have been clearer. I may have to try the 2005. I have tried several vintages of the Dr. L, and I have never thought one worth drinking.

Some general principles make it even worse.
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