Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

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Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

Postby Daniel Rogov » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:22 am

Sent to me by a correspondent - an article about a kosher and quite upswing cafe-restaurant in a religious neighborhood in Brooklyn. Worth a read. Be sure to read the feedback comments as well as they say a great deal about what makes the world turn.

The article in Vos is Neias (Yiddish for "What's News") can be seen at
http://www.vosizneias.com/62959/2010/08 ... elting-pot

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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn

Postby Mike_F » Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:52 am

Daniel Rogov wrote: Be sure to read the feedback comments as well as they say a great deal about what makes the world turn.


Clearly there is a great need for a mental health hotline to serve some of those commenters...
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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn

Postby Shlomo R » Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:53 pm

Mike_F wrote:
Daniel Rogov wrote: Be sure to read the feedback comments as well as they say a great deal about what makes the world turn.


Clearly there is a great need for a mental health hotline to serve some of those commenters...


Mike, I should have known better than to read comments on Vos Is Neias, but I'm assigning you some of the blame, for your comment sparked my morbid curiosity, which lead me to read about 12 comments. After that, I couldn't hit the "back" button fast enough. Too bad we don't have barfing smilies. And of course, MIke, I am joking about assigning you blame. I should have known better... :oops:
http://www.chailifeline.org/events/Bike ... rosenzweig - cycling 175 miles to raise money for summer camp for kids with cancer - doing it again in 2014!
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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn

Postby Charlie Dawg » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:14 pm

I actually was going to go to check the place out when I was there last, but did not make it. Maybe next time, if it will last a year. I usually go there ones a year. And most places do not less that long.
But as far as coments, when or where in the history Jews actually agree with one another. :(
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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn

Postby Daniel Rogov » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:46 pm

Sent to me by one of my faithful correspondents, a most interesting followup to the original story this one by Frank Bruni of the New York Times seeming to demonstrate how co-existence is not only possible but highly desirable. See the article (long but worth reading) at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/10/magaz ... ted=1&_r=2

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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

Postby Charlie Dawg » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:06 pm

I say let's start collecting bets on how long this will last. I'd say maybe a year.
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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

Postby Daniel Rogov » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:26 pm

Charlie, Hi....

You may be right and that would be very, very sad for it that does come to pass it will be largely because the orthodox community has forcibly rejected what is an obviously very positive move in respecting not only their rights but those of others as well.

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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

Postby Charlie Dawg » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:29 pm

I don't know. There are plenty of kosher restaurants in NY that are filled with people who are not frum, as the matter of fact that is their main business, but what and why is so special about this place? There is kosher restaurant in CH, called Mendy's, right next to children's museum, I've eaten there many times, it is actually really-really good place, good food, ok no music, but very nice. Plenty of people who are not frum, nobody kicks them out, nobody tells them how to dress or behave. Why isn't there any controversy with that place versus this one? The Chasidim pride themselves that for more than hundred years they were able to live their lives the same way they lived in the old country. Do we really have to push them into something they do not believe, do not like, do not want in their lives, or expect something different from them? And if yes, why? Why do I need to push my believes on somebody I have nothing in common with? I don't know what the solution is; I don't know what even the problem is. I guarantee you that people who will not want to see somebody kissing in the restaurant will not go to that place. I don't know why this is such a big deal for media and for people who do not care about kosher or religious believes of others. If they want to pay triple and quadruple for a pizza, let them eat there let them do what they want. Question is how fast the such place will go out of business, because eventually it will, nobody who doesn't have to pay that much for pizza will keep doing it on regular bases. People who keep kosher have no choice they have to pay that much, but if the place doesn't provide the environment they can accept and approve they will also not go there. I would love to go to restaurant that serves ethnic foods, especially kind that is not readily available elsewhere, but I will not go to a strip bar, no matter how kosher food is. My wife would simply not have anything to do with me after that. I am, of course exaggerating, but for the fervently religious people tank top and mini skirt is pretty much a strip bar.
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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

Postby Daniel Rogov » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:59 pm

Charlie, Hi...

Indeed though there is a need for all people, no matter what their religious beliefs or nationalities, to make the move into the 21st century. Nor should there be a need to isolate oneself from one's surroundings. A responsible citizen, no matter where, should adapt to the positive norms of modern society and should respect those who abide by those norms.

As to living in the past according to a well-established code, think for example of Moslem women who must cover their faces and wear clothing so that absolutely nothing but the wrists show. Think of several Orthodox groups in Israel (I cannot speak for the USA) that forbid their followers access to the internet. Think of countries where women cannot even leave their homes unless accompanied by a male family member. Think of the tens of thousands of girls who are forced to undergo clitorectomies. Think of families in which daughters are slaughtered by their brothers, fathers and uncles for offending the "honor" of the family. Think of countries in which women can neither vote nor inherit property. Think of places where only a first-born son can inherit from a father. Think of a country in which an ambulance driving on Yom Kippur will be stoned. Think of countries in which 8, 10 and 11 year old girls are forced into marriages with men old enough to be their fathers or even grandfathers. Each of those examples derives from a religious dictate.

Indeed, although I respect many religious practices, there are those that make me cringe in horror. I will also admit that there are some that make me burst out in guffaws of laughter. (I think in particular of the rabbi who ordered both men and women visiting the grave of a beloved rabbi to cover their faces completely with black cloth so that nothing they saw might "tempt" them. If we are so afraid of temptation perhaps we should focus inwardly and not outwardly.

The man who opened this restaurant is himself an orthodox Jew. His idea was to create an open atmosphere. As to prices and value for money, as in all situations, that is up to the individual and has nothing whatever to do with religion or moral beliefs.

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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

Postby Charlie Dawg » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:31 pm

As long as the customs and tradition of peoples’ do not offend/interfere with human rights at large or is it in general, (Pardon my English or rather lack of it) as long as people on their good behavior, and we Jews are lucky to have the instruction book on good behavior, it doesn’t bother me.
If women want to dress modestly it is their right, if women forced into dressing modestly are a different story. If somebody wants to have democracy and fights for it, it is their choice, if somebody wants to export a democracy it is a different story. Not any better than exporting terrorism. If somebody wants to prohibit the use of internet for its followers then it is up to those followers to continue or not to continue to be “the followers”. For myself I know I would not be such a follower. But I also would appreciate those who decide to keep doing what they are doing.
Chabad Lubavitch is very open minded movement. They are champions of internet, of interface relations; there are scientists among them, as in our case the father of the owner, doctors, lawyers etc.
The fact that the religious patrons do not want to see half naked body of some women, nu… I cannot blame them for that. I am not against the women wearing that kind of cloth, it is their right in a free society to dress any way they want, anyway the fashion dictates. I would not want my daughter to dress like that, I would not want my wife to dress like that, there are a ways to dress fashionable but modest.
Freedom and progress brought not only human rights but also a lot of dirt. Free sex (I don’t mean money in this case, I mean the fact of irresponsibility where having sex “is not a reason to ask the person for her/his name” for example), broken families, and parentless children, the list goes on. Wasn’t there a conversation here, on the site, about misbehaving children in the restaurants? There are pluses and minuses on both sides of the aisle. We just need to learn to respect both sides.
Compromise I think would be the good word. I will not force my believes on anybody as long as nobody will force theirs’ believes on me. Though I might offer my views and opinion. To make it food related it is like forcing somebody who loves meat to become a vegetarian.
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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

Postby Daniel Rogov » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:43 pm

Charlie, Hi...

I am large agreement with much of what you say. As to the restaurant, agreed that only those who wish to patronize the place should. No-one is twisting their arms.

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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

Postby Charlie Dawg » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:58 pm

100%
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Re: Kosher and Upswing in Brooklyn (Updated 7 Oct 2010)

Postby Charlie Dawg » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:16 pm

Just came back from NY. Made the point of going to Basel. Well, I don't know what the hupla is all about. I would not go back no mattter if I did or did not keep kosher. Even coffee was at best mediocare. And the pizza, I can make better pizza. And I am not famous for making good pizza. I am not even going to talk about the prices. Ok, to their credit, it was early Friday afternoon and they do close early on Friday, so it could have been leftovers, I do not know. I do know they did not offer me a discount so I fully expected food as good as the price.
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