A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

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A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Gamliel K » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:51 pm

Dear all:

I know that this may sound like a strange request (and no doubt heretical to any Frenchman) but I was wondering if anyone has a recipe for a parve* brioche dough, or something similar.

Thanks,
Gamliel

*Parve is a Yiddish word used to denote a food that has neither meat or dairy products.
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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Daniel Rogov » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:40 pm

Gamliel, Hi….

I have a dozen recipes for brioche dough and every one of them calls for flour, butter, milk, eggs, egg yolks, yeast, sugar and salt. I cannot help but think that a brioche made without butter and milk would be an odd creature indeed. I think of substitutes such as soya milk, coconut milk, margarine and the like and all I can do is grimace.

As those of you who keep kashrut have voluntarily given up shellfish and other such, I suggest rather strongly that you put the notion of a parve brioche aside.

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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Gamliel K » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:50 pm

Alas I had a feeling that that would be the case. . .though I do love brioche. In any event, the reason I asked is because I have been experimenting with sausage making of late, and remember once seeing a recipe for a country style cured sausage baked in a casing of brioche. I was thinking of giving that a try, and was wondering what dough I should use instead of brioche? Any suggestions?

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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Shel T » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:05 pm

Cornmeal crust like sausage hushpuppies
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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Daniel Rogov » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:52 pm

Shel, Hi....

As they say to Charlie Brown, "You're a good man" but nearly all recipes for cornmeal crust contain a generous amount of butter and when it comes to parve that's something like "I've been kissed by a dog". True, some can substitute margarine for butter but is not margarine one of the abominations they dreamed of when writing the Old Testament?

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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Shel T » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:27 pm

Daniel Rogov wrote:Shel, Hi....

As they say to Charlie Brown, "You're a good man" but nearly all recipes for cornmeal crust contain a generous amount of butter and when it comes to parve that's something like "I've been kissed by a dog". True, some can substitute margarine for butter but is not margarine one of the abominations they dreamed of when writing the Old Testament?

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LOL rogov, you may have been around for the writing of the Old Testament, but I wasn't! But I do know there is kosher margarine, and no less a baking "icon" than Lady Bird Johnson's recipe for the cornmeal based hushpuppies that could be used as sausage crust, contains only cornmeal, baking powder, sugar, margarine, salt and water.
So although not my idea of how to encase sausage, it is 'kosherly' doable...that is assuming he ain't making it with pork sausage!
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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Daniel Rogov » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:57 pm

Shel, Hi....

Correct you may be but.....I've tasted vegetable based margarine as used to bake croissants, in pancakes, in various other baked products and in every case the difference was enormous. I wasn't around when they wrote that noble set of books but I was around when Curnonsky was offered a million dollars simply to say that margarine was as good as butter. Curnonsky took the check in hand, looked at it carefully, tore it equally carefully in half and said "Gentlemen, nothing is as good as butter".

My problem is not with kashrut. My problem is with the substitutes that are too often used in order to maintain kashrut. With those substitutes far too much is lost.

My 6.5 cents.

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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Shel T » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:49 pm

I agree completely Rogov, but this does provide gamliel K, who tastes we don't know, a way to do his sausage, and perhaps if he tries it, will let us know how it turned out.
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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Gamliel K » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:22 am

Rogov, Shel . . .

I've givien it some thought and think I try it with a simple pastry dough. . .a sussage pie if you will (though log shaped). Although I have to admit I am curious to try a cornmeal crust. My only hesitation is that that would be getting a bet far away from the french origins of the dish. I plan to make it next week, or prehaps the week after, and will write back with the results.

Thanks for all of the adivce,
Gamliel
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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Charlie Dawg » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:06 pm

Gamliel substitute Coffee Rich or Mocha, both coffee creamers, instead of milk. Under no circumstances should you use soy milk it is absolutely repulsive. And instead of butter you should try either shortening or margarine, but please use some of the good margarines, otherwise the whole taste will be ruined as most margarine has disgusting taste. I suggest "Mother’s margarine" brand.
Of course it is not going to be the same, but if parve is what you need parve is what you will get.
You are what you eat.
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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Daniel Rogov » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:43 pm

One day, many years ago, a bearded man looking remarkably like Charlton Heston went up a mountain. After encountering a burning bush that burned so well that it would not extinguish, he went further up and there received two stone tablets. Some have said that the fiery finger of God wrote the Ten Commandments on those tablets. Others, more knowledgeable knew that there was an 11th Commandment, the one that showed the true wisdom of God for that 11th Commandment stated:

"Though shall not eat any thing, living or dead, that is an abomination" and one day someone will come along and make an abomination that is said to be like sweet cream. That thing will be an abomination".

Well, as the bearded man made his way back down the mountain to give his people the commandments he noticed that one tablet was longer than the other and, to make life a bit easier, he broke off a chunk of that tablet. That was the chunk that contained the 11th Commandment.True, the bearded man was not disrespectful of God and later that commandment was built into what became known as "The Old Testament".

Let it be known that the Rich products were devised not for the purpose of kashrut but for people who were incapable of digesting lactose. Only when the hard-headed people related to the bearded man realize that Rich was parve did they start making "cream cakes" and "cream sauces" from it. Believe me, every time someone uses Rich a bolt of lighting comes from the heavens to the earth and that simply because God hates abominations.

I have no beard and I certainly have no special line of communication with any diety at all. I will, however, say: Use thee not Rich and use thee not parve margarine for those are abominations and one of those bolts of lightning may well get you one of these days!

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Re: A bit of heresy . . . parve brioche?

Postby Charlie Dawg » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:18 pm

Though I have to agree whole heartedly with what you are saying, Daniel, but if man wants parve, parve it shall be.
Oh By the way, actual story goes like that. When above mentioned "bearded man" came down from the mountain he was caring 3 (yes three) tablets. When he saw his people he started saying, "here I bring you 15", but at that moment he tripped and dropped one of the tablets and it broke into small pieces, the pause was only momentarily, so he finished " I bring you 10, yes 10 commandments" The rest is a history.
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