Culinary Poll #17: Cause for Thanksgiving?

[David Raccah]

I can understand your opinion, that is what I prefaced my statement. That said, I would not give myself to be eaten by a higher power, I would fight for my rights. I say that because I have faith. Faith defines how we humans should act on this planet. Now maybe you may think that a king who gives up his subjects to the carnivorous needs of the other inhabitants of this world, would sound outrageous - I can assure you that on some level, it is exactly how it works. Further discussion of my feelings would inevitably move towards a religious discussion, and I have far TOO MUCH respect for you Daniel to pull this or other topics on your forum towards that direction, more than we already do.

So Happy Thanksgiving, and to placate all I hope - enjoy the food of your choice - as long as it is not human!
David

[Daniel Rogov]

So Happy Thanksgiving, and to placate all I hope - enjoy the food of your choice - as long as it is not human!

David, Hi...

I'll comfortably buy that!!!

Best
Rogov

[Stuart Yaniger]

Cecil Adams disagrees with you.

The peasants-have-no-bread story was in common currency at least since the 1760s as an illustration of the decadence of the aristocracy. The political philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau mentions it in his Confessions in connection with an incident that occurred in 1740. (He stole wine while working as a tutor in Lyons and then had problems trying to scrounge up something to eat along with it.) He concludes thusly: "Finally I remembered the way out suggested by a great princess when told that the peasants had no bread: 'Well, let them eat cake.'"

Now, J.-J. may have been embroidering this yarn with a line he had really heard many years later. But even so, at the time he was writing--early 1766--Marie Antoinette was only ten years old and still four years away from her marriage to the future Louis XVI.

[Shel T]

Re the Benedict Arnold of turkeys...we should keep in mind that the turkeys waiting for the "chop" are almost a different species to what the Pilgrims found, and that the wild turkeys were very wily birds that Ben Franklin wanted to make the U.S. national bird instead of the eagle...fortunately he didn't succeed.
However they managed it, it appears that today's farm turkeys are pretty damn brainless unlike their 'wild' forebearsso will that serve to assuage the misgivings of the more squeamish eaters...who knows...gobble gobble!

[Avi Hein]

That one is easy, as I have not eaten a turkey on Thanksgiving since I was 12 years old and became a vegetarian (for ethical reasons, I admit that I did love the taste of meat). My answer -- which, I fear, may get me booted off by Rogov -- is what I have long adored on Thanksgiving and am sad that isn't in Israel -->TOFURKY! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofurkey, aka soy vegetable protein. I can't say it tastes like turkey (although there are some faux-turkey slices that do), but it's an interesting substitute.

I also agree with Matilda -- lentils, and grains, and all that other yummy stuff.

[Daniel Rogov]

Avi, Hi....

You would have to do a great deal more than being a vegetarian to get "booted off" from our little forum. I have long said that I fully understand how and why one can become a vegetarian because of ethical reasons. Indeed, I actually take to heart (albeit not enough to act on it) that if God gave us dominion over the animals it was not with the thought of eating them but of caring for and nurturing them. It also goes without saying that there can be no argument whatever if one is vegetarian because of health related reasons.

My problem in this case is turning to tofu not as tofu but as a look-alike/passer-for turkey. I believe that a creative cook can do wonders with fruits, vegetables, eggs and dairy products. I also believe in the old adage that in my book prohibits look-alikes: "If it is like an egg it is not as good as an egg".

Best
Rogov

[Avi Hein]

Avi, Hi....
My problem in this case is turning to tofu not as tofu but as a look-alike/passer-for turkey. I believe that a creative cook can do wonders with fruits, vegetables, eggs and dairy products. I also believe in the old adage that in my book prohibits look-alikes: "If it is like an egg it is not as good as an egg".

Ah, of course and to that I agree, a good cook can make plenty of good other foods besides Turkey for Thanksgiving. But, in the association with the holiday of giving thanks and turkey, I think the Pilgrims or whomever really celebrated the 1st Thanksgiving were really copying from the Jews, where the Hebrew word הודו (hodu) means both "thanks" and "turkey!"

[JC (NC)]

"where the Hebrew word הודו (hodu) means both "thanks" and "turkey!"

Interesting!

Did they have turkeys in the Middle East?

[Shlomo R]

As the leader of all turkeys worldwide, I advise the human populace to heed the advertising on american televisions! "Beef! It's what's for dinner!" Listen to them, people! Your own brethren are advising you!

[Avi Hein]

"where the Hebrew word הודו (hodu) means both "thanks" and "turkey!"

Interesting!

Did they have turkeys in the Middle East?

No idea about the history. Turkey is a common food, in shnitzel and other food - albeit rarely whole.

However, הודו (hodu) also means India. Perhaps that means we should serve Indian food on Thanksgiving!

[Yoni M]

Regarding the hodu/turkey/thanks question, I defer to a post on an excellent Hebrew linguistics blog. An excerpt:

Hodu is the Biblical word for India, and therefore tarnegol hodu means "Indian chicken". This is the name for the bird in many European languages - Russian indiuk, Polish indyk, French dinde and Yiddish indik. Even in Turkey they call the bird hindi.

It would appear that the idea of turkey on thanksgiving as a nod to the Hebrew word is plausible given the documented presence of Hebraists among the pilgrims (and later Hebrew commencement addresses at Harvard and Yale), but it looks like a case of a very convenient folk etymology. (On Hebrew in early America, see Shalom Goldman's God's Sacred Tongue.)

[Daniel Rogov]

Sorry guys but I think etymological hunt is doomed to failure. The turkey is indigenous to North America but when the Pilgrims encountered the bird they mistook it for one of the birds in the guinea fowl family. The guinea fowls made their way to Europe from Africa via Turkey and it was the name of the country that quickly came into everyday usage as the name of the bird.

Going a step further, there is no chance whatever that whomever wrote the Bible had ever encountered the bird we now know as the turkey.

I'll add a bit of dry wood to the fire, however….. one of Columbus' sailors recorded about this bird in his personal log. The man, a converted Jew, called the bird a "tukki" which is Hebrew for"parrot". Some speculate that the leap from "tukki" to "turkey" is not that far a gap.

Ye faithful cultural myth buster
Rogov

[Doug Z]

I too am a devout carnivore but I wonder how I would feel if some group of creatures superior to we humans were to perceive us as their feast of choice for a given holiday. Were I a leader of the humans,I doubt very much that I would advise us to go gentle into that good night that awaits at the butcher's blade. Would not a turkey giving the advice that some of you would have him offer be forever perceived as the Benedict Arnold of all turkeys?

Best
Rogov

anyone who reads your post and doesnt react with this scene....simply is too young to consider himself a person.