WineLovers Discussion Group

2001 Schloss Johannisberger Rotlack Kabinett
This is damned good wine. Buy some. Drink some. Rejoice. The first day shows a bit of sour backwards and almost dry lemons but the great firm structure is there, and I know it will shine on day two. As expected, it really blossoms into firm fresh crisp lemon shells, slight drying verdant nature, slight rich weight, gorgeous balance keeps it poised, and best of all are the INTENSE INTENSE minerals. A lithe regal firm and proud kabinett. Bravo. Bravo.

2001 Schloss Johannisberger Grunlack Spatlese
This is damned good wine. Buy some. Maybe drink some. But definitely save some. Rejoice. The first day it also shows some sour backwards and almost dry lemons, but fatter and tighter than the kabinett. It opens on day three to show ripe chewy golden botrytis but clean firm edges and just glistening with minerals. You can wait for this to evolve, but it is so regal, so poised, so nice, firm and structured. I’d be happy to own. And must give credit to Larry Stein for first alerting me to this success several years ago.

1995 Gilles Barge Cote Rotie Cuvée du Plessy
Interesting wine. Dark dark gritty flavors and feelings that don’t scream classic Cote Rotie at all, to me at least. But, with air the roasted meaty pork begins to migrate away from Cornas and show some elegant floral bacon, always dark and savory, but the texture becomes more delicate and fine. In the end it is a fun drop of drink, a bit too roasted in the flavors for me to really get behind it, but, I survived.

1995 Gilles Barge Cote Rotie Cuvée du Plessy
Interesting wine. Dark dark gritty flavors and feelings that don’t scream classic Cote Rotie at all, to me at least. But, with air the roasted meaty pork begins to migrate away from Cornas and show some elegant floral bacon, always dark and savory, but the texture becomes more delicate and fine. In the end it is a fun drop of drink, a bit too roasted in the flavors for me to really get behind it, but, I survived.

Heretic!

JoePerry wrote:

1995 Gilles Barge Cote Rotie Cuvée du Plessy
Interesting wine. Dark dark gritty flavors and feelings that don’t scream classic Cote Rotie at all, to me at least. But, with air the roasted meaty pork begins to migrate away from Cornas and show some elegant floral bacon, always dark and savory, but the texture becomes more delicate and fine. In the end it is a fun drop of drink, a bit too roasted in the flavors for me to really get behind it, but, I survived.

Heretic!

You like em roasted on the slope, huh?

It's not their fault that they are downwind from Ogier...

Oh, you meant roasted meat, I thought you meant smoked...

2001 Schloss Johannisberger Rotlack Kabinett

Rahsaan,

I tasted this wine in January and I couldn't get past the sourness. I found it to be quite overwhelming. Unfortunately I didn't have the foresight to set it aside for a day and come back to it. I am normally not as patient with white wines as I am with reds.

In general if you are not patient then this is exactly the wrong time to be opening any 2001 Germans except the smallest of QbAs. Most are still shut down and need significant air.

Sam Platt wrote:

2001 Schloss Johannisberger Rotlack Kabinett

Rahsaan,

I tasted this wine in January and I couldn't get past the sourness. I found it to be quite overwhelming. Unfortunately I didn't have the foresight to set it aside for a day and come back to it.

Yes, as David said, I always have quite large minimum airing times for wines like this, opening them well before intended drinking time. Tough for planning, but does make great drinking!

I always have quite large minimum airing times for wines like this, opening them well before intended drinking time.

Rahsaan,

I need to exercise the same discipline with white wines as I do with reds. My paradigm is that whites are fully developed right out of the bottle though I have run into numerous examples to the contrary.

Sam Platt wrote:My paradigm is that whites are fully developed right out of the bottle

Why would you think that? If anything I give the whites I drink more time than the reds. But that could just be a function of the wines I drink.

Sam Platt wrote:
My paradigm is that whites are fully developed right out of the bottle


Why would you think that?

Rahsaan,

That's a question that can probably be answered only by my therapist! I have had many white Burgs that are acidic beyond belief when first uncorked yet mellow out after about 30 minutes in the air. However, I am still taken aback when a white Burg is acidic at the outset. I think that one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. I recognize that I need to adjust my paradigm, or I will continue to be disappointed.

Sam

Don't say...paradigm.

Anyway, I'm with Rahsaan in that so many whites need ages of cellar or decant time. If I am planning on drinking a young J. J. Prum wine with dinner I decant it before breakfast. Then it has some chance of showing well. Huet Vouvray - same thing. In fact I use the decanters more for whites than for reds.

Sam Platt wrote:I recognize that I need to adjust my paradigm, or I will continue to be disappointed.

Sam, I believe you, even if nobody else will. In fact, I think it's a good thing to adjust one's two ten-cent coins frequently ... it helps one understand the great differences among the worlds wines.

In fact, I think it's a good thing to adjust one's two ten-cent coins frequently ...

Paul,

That would be my "pair 'O dimes", as in all of the money I have in my pocket, versus my "paradigm" which is my theoretical framework. By any name it is apparent that I have to be more patient with my whites be they good 'ol Norton from the east, or Chardonnay from Cote d 'Or.

be they good 'ol Norton from the east

Paul,

Just looked at my lone bottle of homemade Norton wine that was given to me as a gift and realized that it was red. Sorry, no disrespect for Norton intended.

[/quote]

Sam Platt wrote:Paul,

Just looked at my lone bottle of homemade Norton wine that was given to me as a gift and realized that it was red.

LOL!! No need to worry about that, Sam! I figured it was just a typo or something.

But ... most interestingly ... a homemade Norton? Mind if I ask something about the fine person who made this Norton? Does he have his own vineyard? What style does he make it in? How about area of origin and vintage? Any of those things on the label perchance?

This easily counts as the most inspiring post I've read for a long time. (That means I'm "green" with envy!)

Mind if I ask something about the fine person who made this Norton?

Paul,

The wine was made by an acquaintance of my father-in-law. I was told that he has a small vinyard, planted with Norton grapes, somewhere in Missouri. From top to bottom the label reads, "Norton - Aestivalis Vinyard - North River Farm". The bottle was given to me at Christmas in 2004 and I assume it is an '04 vintage. I have not tasted it, so I have no idea of the style. My father-in-law proclaimed it "good", but he likes anything that is homemade, by anyone, anywhere. I don't trust his tastes.

I would be happy to make a gift of the wine to you, but I know that re-gifting would irritate my father-in-law. I will taste it in the near future and share the tasting notes.

Sam Platt wrote:I would be happy to make a gift of the wine to you, but I know that re-gifting would irritate my father-in-law.

Sam, thanks for thinking of me, but I would never ask such a thing! I will be most contented to read your tasting notes and, hopefully, to have a long and vigorous discussion about the wine and its genre.

Bob H. brought two wonderful homemade Kentucky wines to MoCool last year - a Chancellor/Seyval blend and a straight Chambourcin. I found the Chancellor blend the funkiest of all, with charry/gamey flavours. There was also a slight dank note that detracted from the wines, though not for my enthusiasm at trying them. Robin found the wines off, and I think there may have indeed been a cleanliness issue somewhere along the way. Still, when you get a home winemaker who's meticulous about quality and cleanliness from vineyard to bottle to glass, there's nothing more delightful!

I'm sorry, but does every thread on this site have to devolve to labrusca and Mocool???

David M. Bueker wrote:I'm sorry, but does every thread on this site have to devolve to labrusca and Mocool???

What's eating you, David? And besides, what you say is simply false.

Paul B. wrote:
What's eating you, David?

If you don't know there's no point in me telling you.

Let's boil down your post, Paul ...

Paul B. wrote:... two wonderful homemade Kentucky wines ... I found the Chancellor blend the funkiest of all ... a slight dank note that detracted from the wines ... Robin found the wines off ... I think there may have indeed been a cleanliness issue ... Still ... there's nothing more delightful!

The fantasy world can be a wonderful place, Paul. But sometimes fantasies are best kept private.

I don't know, Robin. I was replying to Sam's mention of a homemade Norton. Yes, it was a digression ... but if digressions are not permitted, please can someone say so.

All this seems like a lot of anger over nothing. Come on, guys, it's just grape juice - can we be friends?

Paul B. wrote:All this seems like a lot of anger over nothing. Come on, guys, it's just grape juice - can we be friends?

It's not just about this thread Paul. It's a pattern.