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Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11140
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Steve Slatcher
Wine guru
1047
Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:51 am
Manchester, England
Steve Slatcher wrote:Any wine that comes in at 14.8% (even with the word "only" in front of the percentage) is never going to be lightweight in my book!
To answer the question, though, I never cease to be amazed at the different notes experts can make about the same wine, sometimes the same bottle. This is often glaring in The World of Fine Wine where typically 3 reviewers have their notes one after the other. There are a couple of (abbreviated to avoid copyright infringement) examples from WoFW in this blog post, and a few more thoughts on the subject: http://www.winenous.co.uk/wp/archives/832
To reiterate a point I make in the post... I think it is fine that people, experts even, should have very different takes on a wine. It is just a fact of life that we need to accept and learn to live with. There is no point getting aggressive or defensive about it.
Tom V wrote: he also is capable of appreciating more subtle wines such as for instance Riojas.
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11140
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11140
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Victorwine wrote:The term “Godzilla” used in Steve’s tasting note is his impression of the wines “fruitiness” and not the wine as a whole. Parker on the other hand only got “attractive” fruitiness.
Dale Williams wrote:Well, for clarity Heimoff used the Godzilla imagery about the fruit, but then says it's well balanced. While the descriptions are different (as tasters are different), I think in totality they are not as diametrically opposed as Godzilla vs easy drinker. I'm with Steve - let a thousand TNs bloom.
As to Rioja, Rioja can indeed subtle and elegant, especially with age. CVNE, La Rioja Alta, Lopez de Heredia, even older Murrieta. But I think my memories of Parker high scorers tend to be Torre Muga, Artadi El Pison, and the like. Subtle they ain't.
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11140
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Dale Williams wrote:No one is saying that the descriptors are akin. Clearly they view the wine differently. But if one is comparing, has to compare the whole review, not just phrases. I could say Parker said "14.8%, attractive berry fruit, nothing herbaceous" and Heimoff said " exquisitely balanced, Zen-like black raspberry jam, red currant, yet so focused" and differences would seem minor.
I pretty regularly have vastly different opinions over wines with people that I am sharing a bottle with.
As to Rioja, while one can argue from a Lahart-esque viewpoint that Parker is a model of diverse tastes, my limited experience is that he strongly favors the bigger styled wines. I actually was given a Parker's buyers guide (6th edition) many years ago. A quick glance reinforces my prejudices. His Spain section focuses more on high octane regions, but he includes some Rioja estates of note. Of wines where he gave a score above 90, we have 6 different Artadi bottlings (-92-97+), 2 Remierz de Ganuza (94 & 95 points), 2 San Vincentes, a Torre Muga, and a lone La Rioja Alta 890 (a 92 for the 1985). He considers Sierra Cantabria and Valcona more important than Lopez de Heridia. And that was 10 plus years ago. Plus I think whatever appreciation Parker might have had for subtlety is fading based on recent rants.
Steve Slatcher
Wine guru
1047
Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:51 am
Manchester, England
Tom V wrote:Steve Slatcher wrote:Any wine that comes in at 14.8% (even with the word "only" in front of the percentage) is never going to be lightweight in my book!
To answer the question, though, I never cease to be amazed at the different notes experts can make about the same wine, sometimes the same bottle. This is often glaring in The World of Fine Wine where typically 3 reviewers have their notes one after the other. There are a couple of (abbreviated to avoid copyright infringement) examples from WoFW in this blog post, and a few more thoughts on the subject: http://www.winenous.co.uk/wp/archives/832
To reiterate a point I make in the post... I think it is fine that people, experts even, should have very different takes on a wine. It is just a fact of life that we need to accept and learn to live with. There is no point getting aggressive or defensive about it.
Steve, Don't know if you were referring to me or not.
Steve Slatcher wrote:Tom V wrote:Steve Slatcher wrote:Any wine that comes in at 14.8% (even with the word "only" in front of the percentage) is never going to be lightweight in my book!
To answer the question, though, I never cease to be amazed at the different notes experts can make about the same wine, sometimes the same bottle. This is often glaring in The World of Fine Wine where typically 3 reviewers have their notes one after the other. There are a couple of (abbreviated to avoid copyright infringement) examples from WoFW in this blog post, and a few more thoughts on the subject: http://www.winenous.co.uk/wp/archives/832
To reiterate a point I make in the post... I think it is fine that people, experts even, should have very different takes on a wine. It is just a fact of life that we need to accept and learn to live with. There is no point getting aggressive or defensive about it.
Steve, Don't know if you were referring to me or not.
About being aggressive or defensive? No - not at all. Sorry if it came over like that.
But some experts react that way when others disagree with them (did anyone say Pavie?). And others get defensive when you argue that their views are not objective - they seem to think their expertise is being challenged.
Dale Williams
Compassionate Connoisseur
11140
Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)
Jenise
FLDG Dishwasher
42625
Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm
The Pacific Northest Westest
Tom V wrote:What can I say, I'll have to ruminate on these comments and see what I'm missing here, have a hard time finding "just a lightweight red" (not easy drinker, my mistake) akin to "huge", "like Godzilla trampling skyscrapers underfoot" and "massive".
Victorwine wrote:Hi again Tom,
He is not referring to the wine as a whole as a “Monster Zin “ or a “Godzilla Zin”.
Here’s my take on Steve’s TN- It’s the “huge”, “Godzilla”-like fruit “trampling skyscrapers” (non fruity and structural components of the wine) “underfoot” causing a “massive swirling (balanced, well mingled and married) (of) elements” and in the “center” (possible untouched) is a “Zen like stillness” (for me this would be my “tell-tale sign” for Zin- spicy, zesty, slightly raisiny, underbrush like qualities and/or maybe a slight dose (but pleasant) of VA funk).
Salute
Jenise wrote: At first glance there's no reconciling "lightweight" and "Godzilla".
Dale Williams wrote:Tom,
as I said, it's clear they regarded the wines differently. I was just pointing out that Parker refers to "only 14.8%'"- while Zin handles/needs alcohol better than most grapes, 14.8 requires an "only" or makes a wine "lightweight?" No wonder Parker doesn't like Dashe.
As to the 890 scores, I'd assume the recent ones are Neal Martin (certainly the 96 points for the 1995 is, just got an offer on that). Parker hasn't done Rioja for years.
Steve Slatcher
Wine guru
1047
Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:51 am
Manchester, England
Jenise wrote:However different tasters respond to wines differently, you'd think two 'experts' would at least agree on body. At first glance, there's no reconciling "lightweight" and "Godzilla".
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