WineLovers Discussion Group

When I'm looking for good value, I most often start my quest among Southern Rhones or cheap Tuscan reds. Here's one, not entirely successful but structured enough to settle down and work and play well with food.

Chateau Saint-Roch 2011 "Brunel" Côtes du Rhône ($13.99)

Dark purple, with a clear garnet edge. Black plums on the nose, good, simple black fruit and crisp acidity on the palate. Good food wine, really comes into better perspective with something good on the plate than it does for sipping alone, where it’s pleasant enough but somewhat one-dimensional. The lesson here is a good one: wine, or most wine, anyway, is made to go with food. If you want a cocktail, have the bartender mix you one.

Estate bottled, 50% Grenache, 25% Syrah, 25% Cinsault; 14% alcohol. U.S. importer: Shaw-Ross international Importers, Miramar, Fla. (Feb. 26, 2014)

FOOD MATCH: shepherds pie and gratin mashup as featured in the Feb. 21, 2014 article, Rich Comfort Food to the Extreme, turned into a plant-based dish by substituting a mixture of sauteed mushrooms and onions and a bit of soy-based "ground 'beef'" for the burger meat.

Sam Platt wrote:Jaffelin Cremant de Bourgogne Grand Cuvee Speciale Blanc de Blanc Brut
PS: Does "blanc de blanc" imply "méthode traditionnelle?"

No. "Blanc de blanc" means that it is white wine made from white grapes (Chardonnay, in this case). "Blanc de noir" means it is white wine made from red grapes (such as pinot noir). If neither term is mentioned, the wine might be a blend of wines from both white and red grapes (this is the most common way Champagne is made).

I think the AOC Cremant de Bourgogne implies "methode traditionnelle".

-Paul W.

Thanks Paul. So a blanc de blanc can be either méthode traditionnelle or méthode champenoise?

I suppose I should know this, but I never really thought about it before.

Sam Platt wrote: So a blanc de blanc can be either méthode traditionnelle or méthode champenoise?

The two are the same method - just can't be called "champenoise" if it isn't from Champagne.

I think he meant blanc de blancs can be either charmat or methode champenoise.
I am pretty sure there are Limoux wines labelled BdB which are charmat.

For some labels in English, there is another distinction. "Fermented in this bottle" means methode champenoise. However, "Fermented in the bottle" implies the bottle transfer method was used. This requires the use of a specific piece of machinery that opens a capped bottle in such a way as to retain the pressure, then the bottle is emptied through a filter, to remove the yeast, into another bottle, where the dosage is added and it is then corked, all the while maintaining the pressure. Neither of these are charmat bulk process.

Hi Sam,
You might find the following link interesting. There are several ways in which sparkling wines can be produced. As pointed out by Joy, “method champenoise” is identical to “traditional method”. As Howie pointed out only “method champenoise” (“traditional method”) and “transfer method” could state that the (second) fermentation occurred in a bottle. “Charmant method” is basically the same as “bulk method”, “close method”, or “tank method”. Wines labeled “Cremant” from France are usually made using the traditional method.

http://www.wineskills.co.uk/winemaking/ ... production

Salute

Thanks to everyone for the clarification. To summarize:

1. The traditional method and the method champenoise are identical.
2. The method champenoise is simply the traditional method applied to sparkling wine made in the Champagen region.
3. Other sparkling wines may make use to the traditional method.
4. Methods other than the tradition method are used and may be designated for specific types of sparkling wines.

In Champagne, the largest bottle size where the CO2 is introduced by fermentation in that very bottle is the Jeroboam (3 liters). For larger sizes, the in-bottle fermentation takes place in smaller bottles, from which the wine is decanted into the larger bottle.

-Paul W.

In Champagne, the largest bottle size where the CO2 is introduced by fermentation in that very bottle is the Jeroboam (3 liters). For larger sizes, the in-bottle fermentation takes place in smaller bottles, from which the wine is decanted into the larger bottle.

Man! I wouldn’t want to perform riddling by hand a rack full of 3 liter bottles of Champagne.

Salute

2011 Kung Fu Girl Riesling

Washington State - Charles Smith

Color: Light yellow

Nose: Citrus with some floral notes.

Taste: Semi-sweet. Peach and lime with salt. Decent acidity with a rather clipped finish.

Pairing: Aperitif and maybe spicy Asian foods.

My wife and I do not prefer this style of Riesling, but our friends guzzle the stuff. To keep them happy I have no problem stocking up at the $13 price point. I will say that many Charles Smith wines, including the Kung Fu Girl, offer very decent QPRs.

The sweetness bothers you Sam? Not that I am a fan of hte wine, but just curious as to what you find objectionable.

David,

For some reason Rieslings with even minimal sweetness have begun to taste artificially sweetened and unbalance to me over the past 12 months or so. These are wines of a style that I use to love. I have even lost my taste for late harvest/BA/TBA Riesling as reflected in the fact I drank just a handful of such wines all of last year.

The clincher seemed to be tasting the excellent examples of aged, typically very dry Rieslings that were offered at MoCool this past fall. Perhaps my palate was spoiled. I need to break out some of my JJ Prumm’s and see if I can get my mojo back.

have been buying Kung Fu Girl Reisling for several years now.. nice wine, nice price, good value

Just hosted a wine tasting event for a club of mine last night - budget was ~$12.50 per bottle. Some of the winners were:

Aveleda vinho verde: super light and refreshing (perfect hot summer afternoon quaff), touch of carbonation, the crowd (for the most part unexperienced palates, not paying too much attention to what they're drinking) certainly enjoyed it, nothing complex in any way but quite enjoyable and perfect for an event like this, as for $6 a bottle it allows budget to be spent elsewhere

Coopers Creek sauvignon blanc, marlborough NZ: top crowd favorite, pretty much what you'd expect from NZ sauv blanc, but not quite as sharp and aggressively grassy/herbal as many at this price point, nice ($10.99/bottle).

Dr. Konstantin Semi Dry Riesling, finger lakes NY: not too sweet by any means, nice peachy/floral profile, $12.99/bottle

Wine by Joe Pinot Noir, 2011, Oregon: The most expensive at $14.49/bottle, very subtle flavors, quite light, nice touch of earth/spice

Ondarre Rioja Riserva, 2006: A nice Rioja for $12.99/bottle, lovely dark red fruits with a bit of cassis. Barrel aging is clear but doesn't overshadow the fruits, fairly well balanced

Penfolds Thomas Hyland Shiraz, 2011, Adelaide AU: Deep and inky, lots of dark fruit, blackberry, chocolate/coffee notes, not as strong/bold in fruitiness as expected, but with a touch of barnyard which I tend to enjoy, personally. $12.99/bottle

Not super in depth notes, but really just overall impressions from the next evening. Couldn't exactly be focused on tasting, as well, given I was serving. Did get to try all 10 wines though!

I've had the Cooper's Creek S.B. in the past and enjoyed it. Also the Wine by Joe Pinot Noir and the Dr. Konstantin Frank Rieslings. This weekend I will open a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc as my first contribution to this month's focus. A German Riesling, a Zinfandel or a Barbera may come next.

The Aveleda and Dr Frank bottles are old favorites of mine, have some in the cellar..Haven't had the Coopers in some time but remember it as being tasty and good value

2012 Hofgut Falkenstein Niedermenninger Sonnenberg Riesling Spätlese feinherb
Lovely balance, just barely off dry. Lots of bright citrus fruit and a very stony back end. Invites the next sip, the next glass, and yes the next bottle. Drinking very well now and for at least several more years in my estimation.

I had forgotten how inexpesive ($19.99) this was.

2012 JP Brun Terres Dorees L'Ancien Beaujolais. Cherry, floral and some coffee (?). Decent tannins. Really good on entry, falls of a bit on the mid palate. Fun wine @ $16.99

2006 Éric Texier Côtes du Rhône-Brézème - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côtes du Rhône-Brézème (3/10/2014)
Just as good as my prior bottle a while back, but different. More leather, more spice, more supple and still time in hand for this wine. It's amazing that a $13 bottle (at the time) can be so good 8 years down the road. It's a credit to Eric Texier and a credit to Brezeme.

2012 Darting Dürkheimer Fronhof Riesling Kabinett Trocken
I'm sure I've mentioned this wine before, but this is one of the best value dry Rieslings I have found. Classic apple and mineral nose and so crisp and refreshing on the palate. Lively acidity to balance food, but not so searing as to make drinking on its own unpleasant. This is my summer house white wine, and a lovely match to this 70 deg day and my spicy yellow Thai vegetable curry. Can't beat this value at $16 retail for a 1L bottle!

Darting provides great value from dry to dessert sweet.

David M. Bueker wrote:2006 Éric Texier Côtes du Rhône-Brézème - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côtes du Rhône-Brézème (3/10/2014)
Just as good as my prior bottle a while back, but different. More leather, more spice, more supple and still time in hand for this wine. It's amazing that a $13 bottle (at the time) can be so good 8 years down the road. It's a credit to Eric Texier and a credit to Brezeme.

Wow. Nice. I finished my 06 Brezeme Pergauds last year and they were also great.

It certainly gives me confidence to hold my remaining 2008 Brezemes for a while longer.

Sadly my local shop has not stocked this wine the last several vintages. I struggle with the idea of on-line ordering of a $15 wine.