WineLovers Discussion Group

2010 Perli Vineyard Syrah. 14.1% abv.

This is just plush and luscious stuff. Not in a jammy, flabby way at all, and there is definitely the slightly funky plum skin character I find in a lot of "natural wines". But so luscious that almost anyone who enjoys California wine will still enjoy this. They really nail this one!

2010 Clos du Val Cabernet Franc. Mostly Stags Leap fruit. This has some up front bell pepper typical of the grape, but there is plenty of structure and warm (again) plum flavors and cassis and licorice coming through that suggests this will be a lovely wine with some bottle age.

2008 Clos Du Val Stags Leap Cabernet. Too expensive (and too Napa ) but I simply adore this vintage of this cabernet. tasting notes very similar to last one: Some green notes to add freshness, but the lovely warm red and black fruit earthyness of Clos du Val cabernets comes shining through. Lovely stuff.

2010 Merlot. Another winner. Actually more on the dark fruit, blackberry side of things, with some war earthness and dartk chocolate meaty notes.

Brian K Miller wrote:2008 Clos Du Val Stags Leap Cabernet. Too expensive (and too Napa ) but I simply adore this vintage of this cabernet. tasting notes very similar to last one: Some green notes to add freshness, but the lovely warm red and black fruit earthyness of Clos du Val cabernets comes shining through. Lovely stuff.

Clos du Val don't get a whole lot of luv around here.
DarrellCorti has a CortiReserve 40'th Anniv Cab 2010 that's actually made by Clos du Val. Quite a lovely/old-timey
Calif Cab for a quite attractive price ($38.50)
http://www.cortibros.biz/WEBSITE/Newsle ... oliday.asp

Tom

Clos du Val don't get a whole lot of luv around here.

Is that because it's a wine that everyone knows, that'sconsidered reliable, great but unexciting and no longer a cult darling? (plenty of those in CA, especially in Cab). Or is it because of a string of actual unexciting wines? Since I hardly taste nonkosher wines anymore, I wouldn't be in a position to know. However, I remember a time when Clos du Val was both reliable and exciting.

Craig Winchell wrote:

Clos du Val don't get a whole lot of luv around here.

Is that because it's a wine that everyone knows, that'sconsidered reliable, great but unexciting and no longer a cult darling? (plenty of those in CA, especially in Cab). Or is it because of a string of actual unexciting wines? Since I hardly taste nonkosher wines anymore, I wouldn't be in a position to know. However, I remember a time when Clos du Val was both reliable and exciting.

I don't know the answer to this. I guess to me a cab that has some freshness and earthyness and lower alcohol and ageability is pretty exciting, even if it is too expensive and from a winery that has been around for 40+ years. Given what too many California cabernets taste like, I consider their old school profile pretty "exciting". But...to me excitement doesn't always mean a good thing. I'm sure the $120 Merus cab clocking in at 15.3% abv and full of massive extracted blackberry jam fruit and heady alcohol is more "exciting", but I am still a member, I guess, of the anti-flavor brigade.

Craig Winchell wrote:

Clos du Val don't get a whole lot of luv around here.

Is that because it's a wine that everyone knows, that'sconsidered reliable, great but unexciting and no longer a cult darling? (plenty of those in CA, especially in Cab). Or is it because of a string of actual unexciting wines? Since I hardly taste nonkosher wines anymore, I wouldn't be in a position to know. However, I remember a time when Clos du Val was both reliable and exciting.

Craig,
I think that it's more a matter of Cabernet not getting a lot of love around here any more. Clos du Val is to my tastes still made in the style that made it popular back in the late '70s, but I think that pricing and shifting food consumption patterns have marginalized Cabernet to some extent on the wine boards that I read. Apropos of Jim Barrett's death, I'll note that you don't read a lot about Chateau Montelena (or Mayacamas or Corison even) either. Maybe if those wines were selling for $30-50 per bottle rather than triple that there would be more discussion of them.

Mark Lipton

Mark Lipton wrote:

Craig Winchell wrote:

Clos du Val don't get a whole lot of luv around here.

Is that because it's a wine that everyone knows, that'sconsidered reliable, great but unexciting and no longer a cult darling? (plenty of those in CA, especially in Cab). Or is it because of a string of actual unexciting wines? Since I hardly taste nonkosher wines anymore, I wouldn't be in a position to know. However, I remember a time when Clos du Val was both reliable and exciting.

Craig,
I think that it's more a matter of Cabernet not getting a lot of love around here any more. Clos du Val is to my tastes still made in the style that made it popular back in the late '70s, but I think that pricing and shifting food consumption patterns have marginalized Cabernet to some extent on the wine boards that I read. Apropos of Jim Barrett's death, I'll note that you don't read a lot about Chateau Montelena (or Mayacamas or Corison even) either. Maybe if those wines were selling for $30-50 per bottle rather than triple that there would be more discussion of them.

Mark Lipton

That is certainly a big issue. I am in Corison's club, and I really shouldn't be at all because of the cost. I love her wines, though.

Granted that Cabernet Sauvignon is a mature variety with few stylistic variations. There was more interest when pyrazines were a legitimate expression of the grape in cool climate, rather than a defect. But it and wines produced using a significant percentage of Cabernet were also often the wines I found exhibited excellence over a broad swath, from Bordeaux to CA to Oz to South Africa, even as it stylistically coalesced into fewer and fewer different exemplars. It is still my go-to varietal, especially if I don't have the energy or the time. Cab is like an adult child- it's difficult to be surprised at its manifestations, and most settle down into similar maturity. But for all that, they can be a pleasure to be with, and can be engaging. But other varieties intrigue the mind and the senses. To carry the analogy a bit further, I love my daughter and her husband, but when their 3-month old is around, I am more likely to be lurking around the baby, engaged in the discovery of what makes her tick- interacting with her is compelling, but not if what I'm looking for is a good conversation. Sometimes I just want a good drink that I don't need to think about, while other times I want to be continuously engaged and intrigued.

I don't think most excellent Cabernet is overpriced, either, relative to what else is out there. There are plenty of excellent Cabs which are not cult classics. Face it, the people here just enjoy being continuously stimulated with the new, unusual, downright different.

Craig Winchell wrote:
I don't think most excellent Cabernet is overpriced, either, relative to what else is out there. There are plenty of excellent Cabs which are not cult classics. Face it, the people here just enjoy being continuously stimulated with the new, unusual, downright different.

Overpriced is a subjective term as it depends on one's own valuation of its worth vs. the observable of its price (put another way, QPR, the quality-price ratio, depends on the entirely squishy concept of quality in wine). For my own part, I continue to drink and enjoy Cabernet-based wines from several different regions, but I don't buy or open nearly as many as I used to as we now eat more fish and ethnic food that doesn't pair well with Cabernets and on our limited wine budget it's hard to justify laying out $50-100 on a CalCab or Bordeaux when I can buy Baudry's most excellent Chinons for a fraction of those prices. The world would be a dull place if all I drank was Loire Cab Franc or Marcillac, though, so I continue to spread our wine bucks out to as many regions and styles as I find practical and appealing. When I responded earlier, though, I was focusing on the question of why so few notes on various CalCabs, and I think that the absolute pricing of the wines, irrespective of how "reasonable" such prices are, is a not insignificant factor. There are relatively fewer notes on Bordeaux, too, I think.

Mark Lipton