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Steve Slatcher
Wine guru
1047
Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:51 am
Manchester, England
Victorwine wrote:I have a question for David, Bill, or Lars
I thought that the sites or well-defined parcels of land designation as Erstes Gewächs or Grosses Gewächs came with a QbA or QmP designation “attached” to it? So technically not only defining the site but also the type of wine it produces?
Salute
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34424
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Lars Carlberg wrote:
Steve, if you click on the VDP link, you'll see that it does have the equivalent of premier cru (Erste Lage) and village (Ortswein). The lesser dry to off-dry wines go either in an Orts- or Gutswein.
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34424
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Tim York wrote:Lars Carlberg wrote:
Steve, if you click on the VDP link, you'll see that it does have the equivalent of premier cru (Erste Lage) and village (Ortswein). The lesser dry to off-dry wines go either in an Orts- or Gutswein.
Lars, how far are VDP growers using these lower categories?
I could live with the "Burgundian" system towards which the VDP seems to be groping plus continued use of the prädikats for the sweeter categories PROVIDED THAT the system were generalised and stable and that there were a maximum öchsle count for each category as well as a minimum so as to boost credibility by preventing downgraded "higher" categories. Adoption of the International Riesling Foundation's dryness/sweetness code would be a very welcome bonus, particularly so as to suss out those " dry" GGs with 13g/l RS.
At the risk of being boring, I will restate that what I can't live with is the coexistence, even competition, of two different systems . One has to know by heart which producer is VDP and which is not and, in the case of VDP producers, which wines are using VDP nomenclature and which are not. Even non-VDP producers such as von Schubert are tweaking their nomenclatures in a confusing way, e.g. dropping "Spätlese trocken" from the Abtsberg Alte Reben cuvée and having a "Superior" cuvée (meaning?), but kudos to him for adopting a dryness/sweetness scale .
David M. Bueker wrote:Tim - what's wrong with downgrading? Isn't your real concern sweetness level? If the wine ferments dry, do you really care that there is auslese quality must in there?
David M. Bueker wrote:Tim - what's wrong with downgrading? Isn't your real concern sweetness level? If the wine ferments dry, do you really care that there is auslese quality must in there?
Fredrik L wrote:I personally like the criteria the Bernkasteler Ring members (Clüsserath, Kerpen, Molitor among others) use for their Grosses Gewächs classification...
I must remember to tell Dani Vollenweider not to create special Grosse Gewächse criteria for Klitzekleiner Ring...
Greetings from Sweden / Fredrik L
Lars Carlberg wrote:Daniel Vollenweider is using more or less the VDP model. His dry Rieslings have no predicates now. His quasi-GG is called Goldgrube. He also has a dry Gutsriesling (Felsenfest) and a village wine called Wolfer.
Tim York wrote:Lars Carlberg wrote:Daniel Vollenweider is using more or less the VDP model. His dry Rieslings have no predicates now. His quasi-GG is called Goldgrube. He also has a dry Gutsriesling (Felsenfest) and a village wine called Wolfer.
This is just the sort of thing which gets me ranting. Is he or is he not VDP? If not, what's he doing using "more or less the VDP model"?
The situation seems one of total anarchy .
With that off my chest, let me say that Daniel is a lovely guy who makes beautiful wines .
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34424
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Lars Carlberg wrote:David M. Bueker wrote:Tim - what's wrong with downgrading? Isn't your real concern sweetness level? If the wine ferments dry, do you really care that there is auslese quality must in there?
David: The issue with downgrading is not restricted to sweetness levels. A dry or off-dry Kabinett should be light, too.
David M. Bueker wrote:Lars Carlberg wrote:David M. Bueker wrote:Tim - what's wrong with downgrading? Isn't your real concern sweetness level? If the wine ferments dry, do you really care that there is auslese quality must in there?
David: The issue with downgrading is not restricted to sweetness levels. A dry or off-dry Kabinett should be light, too.
I largely agree (as you know from prior conversations), but the basic levels for kabinett are pretty pathetic (as we have also previosuly discussed).
Looking back at some of my favorite kabinetts (that resemble kabinett) they have generally been spatlese level, though a couple (2001 Wurzgarten and Treppchen from J. J. Christoffel) were technically auslese (barely).
Lars Carlberg wrote:Fredrik L wrote:I personally like the criteria the Bernkasteler Ring members (Clüsserath, Kerpen, Molitor among others) use for their Grosses Gewächs classification...
I must remember to tell Dani Vollenweider not to create special Grosse Gewächse criteria for Klitzekleiner Ring...
Greetings from Sweden / Fredrik L
Fredrik: What's the real difference with the Bernkasteler Ring's Großes Gewächs? Are you referring to the slightly higher RS limit? Many of the wines that I tasted were alcoholic and lacked charm. As far as I know, Markus Molitor doesn't use the designation. Moreover, his wines are in another league.
Daniel Vollenweider is using more or less the VDP model. His dry Rieslings have no predicates now. His quasi-GG is called Goldgrube. He also has a dry Gutsriesling (Felsenfest) and a village wine called Wolfer.
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