WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

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WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

Postby Otto » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:26 pm

2008 Guerila Rebula - Slovenia, Primorska, Vipava Valley (11/8/2012)
12,5% abv; Rebula = Ribolla Gialla. 30 day skin contact, so it is a vivid orange colour. Even though they apparently use only used oak, on the first day I found too much oak aromas for this to be enjoyable. Now on day two, this has opened up well and it has really lovely orange/ citrus fruit aromas. Quite rich and soft, not very tannic despite 30 days of skin contact, and still a touch vanillary on the finish. If only this had used less oak, it might have been a lovely orange wine. Even slight obvious oak seem to have been rare in the "natural" wines I've had (and I'm very happy about that), but are there others whose wines have detectable amounts of wood aromas? I need a list of what not to spend my money on if I come across them! :D
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Re: WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

Postby Agostino Berti » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:25 pm

I've had a Guerila wine. Too bad about the oak. I can hardly tolerate oak nowadays. Probably worse in whites though - steals the subtlety.
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Re: WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

Postby Mark Lipton » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:15 am

Bummer and a half, Otto. Do you think that perhaps that it's your previous experience with the idiom (amphora-aged orange wines) makes you particularly sensitive any trace of oak in the orange wines?

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Re: WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

Postby Jon Peterson » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:05 pm

Agostino Berti wrote:... - steals the subtlety.


I like that expression as it sums up the negative effects of oak concisely.
I just wanted to inform you that I find you to be very attractive. Thank you and have a nice day.
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Re: WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

Postby Florida Jim » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:01 pm

Otto,
I am just beginning to work with this grape but I would guess that the wood likely helped to soften the perceived tannin.
This grape is very tannic and the treatment you described would lead one to believe that the wine would be strongly tannic. But oak can influence the formation of longer tannin chains which are perceived in the mouth as softer than smaller chains.
Of course, that does not diminish the aroma/taste intrusion but it may be a partial explanation as to why they used newer oak on this wine.
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Yup....

Postby TomHill » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:59 pm

Florida Jim wrote:Otto,
I am just beginning to work with this grape but I would guess that the wood likely helped to soften the perceived tannin.
This grape is very tannic and the treatment you described would lead one to believe that the wine would be strongly tannic. But oak can influence the formation of longer tannin chains which are perceived in the mouth as softer than smaller chains.
Of course, that does not diminish the aroma/taste intrusion but it may be a partial explanation as to why they used newer oak on this wine.
Best, Jim


According to Darrell, Ribolla is the 2'nd most tannic white wine after Furmint. I would guess that's why the oak.
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Re: WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

Postby TomHill » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:02 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:Bummer and a half, Otto. Do you think that perhaps that it's your previous experience with the idiom (amphora-aged orange wines) makes you particularly sensitive any trace of oak in the orange wines?
Mark Lipton


Mark,
Not sure if this was an amphora/qvervi-aged wine or not. It could very well just be a skin-contact Ribolla
and never saw the insides of a qvervi. Doesn't sound like it was made in an oxidative style.
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Re: WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

Postby Otto » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:10 pm

Thanks Jim, that sounds like a good explanation on why oak was used.

Mark, it's not only with orange wines that I'm sensitive; if I smell oak, it means there's too much of it for me even in "conventional" wines.
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Re: WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

Postby Jon Peterson » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:40 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:....if I smell oak, it means there's too much of it for me even in "conventional" wines.


I sure don't mind a dose of oak but if, as Otto points out, it is overly noticeable in the wine (either because the wine is over-oaked or the drinker is overly sensitive), then the wine is, at the very least, out of balance. That would be true for me if any one or more of the component aromas or flavors are prominent, not just oak, although that's a major culprit.
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Re: WTN: An overoaked "natural" wine

Postby Otto » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:36 pm

BTW, Jim, the question of oak has come about elsewhere, too, so may I quote you on Rebula's tannins e.g. on my blog and FB page? If that's ok, do I quote you as Cowan or Fl Jim or how?
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