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Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:25 am
by Bob Parsons Alberta
I too read that Tim. I am really getting itchy thinking about opening another Kab in the next couple of days!

WTN: 2010 Joachim Flick Hochheimer Holle Riesling Spatlese Trocken, Rhengau.

Opened at last Sundays lobster feast! AP # 42017 010 11. www.flick-wein.de 13% alc, $31 Cdn I believe.

Wonderful fresh aromas here, ripe citrus, white stonefruit, good minerality. Exceptional balance, dry/polished juice here. Good tangy acidity, lime, grapefruuit, nectarine. Not at all sweet, was perfect after a Hexamer (Nahe) that all raved about too.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:54 am
by David M. Bueker
Hopefully David & Jean won't mind that I grabbed a screen shot of that plea for kabinett. (see http://www.moselfinewines.com)

It's rather hard to read, but I don't have time to retype...

Plea for Kabinett.jpg


My rant regarding critical ratings for higher pradikat wines will have ot wait (or just search the web, as I have ranted that rant many times).

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:20 pm
by Andrew Bair
David - I also read the "Kabinett Plea" in the Mosel Fine Wines newsletter last week, and agree with most of what they have to say. It would truly be a shame if the lighter, more elegant Kabinett style is lost forever.

I'm also in complete agreement with your thoughts about higher numerical ratings being given to higher pradikats only.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:02 pm
by Lars Carlberg
David Schildknecht, a member of my site, comments on Bill's article in regard to malolactic fermentation.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:30 pm
by Lars Carlberg
Andrew Bair wrote:David - I also read the "Kabinett Plea" in the Mosel Fine Wines newsletter last week, and agree with most of what they have to say. It would truly be a shame if the lighter, more elegant Kabinett style is lost forever.

I'm also in complete agreement with your thoughts about higher numerical ratings being given to higher pradikats only.


In July, Stephan Reinhardt, who has a book titled The Finest Wines of Germany coming out soon, also wrote a piece, like Jean and David, on Kabinett in the Süddeutsche Zeitung. It's been an issue among Mosel producers over the last few years.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:13 pm
by Bob Parsons Alberta
I, for one, was hoping you might be around to comment on this thread Lars. I will digest these new writings when I have more time. Is there any chance you could give us the gist of the German article? Many here are not competent in that language!

Once again when helping out at the local wine store last weekend, I was trying to explain "kabinett" to some buyers. Their overall impression after my 5 mins chat was that the wines are still too sweet but they would consider a "trocken" when next in town. That is what we are up against.
I should add they were familiar with BC rieslings but not Alsace. They choose a Trimbach Reserve Riesling on my prompting/bs-ing to try one from that area!

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:03 pm
by Lars Carlberg
Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:I, for one, was hoping you might be around to comment on this thread Lars. I will digest these new writings when I have more time. Is there any chance you could give us the gist of the German article? Many here are not competent in that language!

Once again when helping out at the local wine store last weekend, I was trying to explain "kabinett" to some buyers. Their overall impression after my 5 mins chat was that the wines are still too sweet but they would consider a "trocken" when next in town. That is what we are up against.
I should add they were familiar with BC rieslings but not Alsace. They choose a Trimbach Reserve Riesling on my prompting/bs-ing to try one from that area!


Bob: Stephan Reinhardt's article is also a plea for Kabinett Rieslings, especially the off-dry (feinherb) styles, as the dry (trocken) versions can be too alcoholic and the fruity ones (no designation) too sweet.

In April 2010, Eric Asimov posted an article about this topic, as well, though more about the so-called "classic" sweeter Mosel Kabinett Riesling.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:49 pm
by Bob Parsons Alberta
Am I having fun here today! As a matter of interest, I think this is the Asimov article that Lars refers too. "So, most kabinetts nowadays are in fact spätlese weight, or more". Read on>

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/dinin ... .html?_r=0

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:20 pm
by David M. Bueker
The spatlese as kabinett issue is not anything new. I wish I had recorded the discussion my wife and I had with Nik Weiss about the exact same issue in 2003. He and I agreed that there has not been much actual sweet kabinett (as opposed to declassified spatlese or even auslese) since the mid to late 90s.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:18 am
by Lars Carlberg
Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:Am I having fun here today! As a matter of interest, I think this is the Asimov article that Lars refers too. "So, most kabinetts nowadays are in fact spätlese weight, or more". Read on>

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/dinin ... .html?_r=0


Yes, Bob. That's the article. At the moment, I'm reworking a piece that I wrote in response to Asimov's article back then.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:27 am
by David M. Bueker
Lars Carlberg wrote:David Schildknecht, a member of my site, comments on Bill's article in regard to malolactic fermentation.


I always enjoy David Schildknecht's writing, especially when I don't need a thesaurus to understand what he is saying.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:17 am
by Lars Carlberg
David M. Bueker wrote:
Lars Carlberg wrote:David Schildknecht, a member of my site, comments on Bill's article in regard to malolactic fermentation.


I always enjoy David Schildknecht's writing, especially when I don't need a thesaurus to understand what he is saying.


Agreed. Schildknecht's short producer profiles in Parker's Wine Buyer's Guide are most excellent.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:36 am
by Lars Carlberg
I appreciate Bill Hooper, who is busy working the harvest in the Pfalz, taking the time to reply to David Schildknecht's long comment last night.

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:05 pm
by Bob Parsons Alberta
I thought this tread was of real interest when posted in 2012. I have been fortunate to purchase 2 more bottles of the 2012 Joachim Flick Hochheimer Holle Riesling Spatlese Trocken.
Doing some extensive research I find out that Franz Kunstler has built quite a reputation here so wonder if anyone would care to add additional info. Perhaps David has some stashed away :) .

Re: The Rise and Fall of Sweet Riesling

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:26 pm
by David M. Bueker
Sorry. Got nothing.