WineLovers Discussion Group

Spain, Austria, Oregon:

2004 Descendants de J. Palacios, Bierzo Pétalos:
Smells like a tannic cabernet franc (but without any herbaceous quality); rich in the mouth with black fruit flavors, some earth tones and a good shot of tannin; medium length, somewhat tannic finish. Shows youthful and undeveloped but with good fruit and structure and I like the flavor profile. About $16, and could use a couple years in the cellar.

2000 Nikolaihof, Riesling Smaragd Im Weingebirge:
Expansive pineapple-ginger nose with lots of stone/mineral scents but no petrol tones; also expansive in the mouth with a juicy acidic backbone, good depth, some nuance and excellent balance; medium length, mouthwatering finish. A wine of power and finesse in its toddler years. 12.5% alcohol and about $35, on release.

1998 Hamacher, Pinot Noir:
Developed pinot nose with soy, earth, underbrush and red fruit; younger on the palate with medium weight, solid acids, flavors that follow the nose, pretty nuance and good balance; medium length, strongly flavored finish. A wine of finesse and backbone; not anywhere near its peak but charming and interesting, at the moment. About 13% alcohol and about $30, on release.

Best, Jim

Jim,
Did you scrap the "I would/would not buy it again at that price" rating system?
Curly

thanks for the note on the Nikolaihof. I was contemplating bringing this as an offering to an offline where I was to bring a Riesling, sounds like (much) more time is in order.

Redwinger wrote:Jim,
Did you scrap the "I would/would not buy it again at that price" rating system?
Curly

Inadvertently.
I was away for a month and just forgot the format.
FWIW, I would buy all of these again at the prices mentioned.
Best, Jim

Dale Williams wrote: . . . sounds like (much) more time is in order.

Or maybe, some decanter time.
Who can say?
Best, Jim

It's always a pleasant suprise when a 2000 Austrian Riesling does well. Nikolaihof was very good in the vitnage, but sadly others were not so lucky.

Thanks for your many notes on the Palacios Pétalos. Bierzo is a region I'm interested in exploring -- I've only tried a few so far -- and in service of this goal, I'm actually buying several bottles of the 2004 Pétalos today, though as per your recommendation, I suspect I won't open them until 2008 or 2009. It's nice to be able to find a Bierzo that's affordable, not overly manipulated, and carries the Florida Jim® seal of approval.

Bruce K wrote:Thanks for your many notes on the Palacios Pétalos. Bierzo is a region I'm interested in exploring -- I've only tried a few so far -- and in service of this goal, I'm actually buying several bottles of the 2004 Pétalos today, though as per your recommendation, I suspect I won't open them until 2008 or 2009. It's nice to be able to find a Bierzo that's affordable, not overly manipulated, and carries the Florida Jim® seal of approval.

Bruce,
The region interests me as well, especially because of the mencia grape.
If I understand correctly, it is cousin to cabernet franc; judging from the flavor profile, I'd say that's likely.
BTW, recently I tried a wine from the Basque region of Spain made with the hondarrabi beltza grape, also cousin to cab. franc. What was interesting about it was that the fruit was from ungrafted vines, fermented in stainless. So it gives one an idea of what cab. franc and mencia can be under those circumstances.
I'm sure most of the mencia and cab. franc planted today is on root stock so it was nice to get a glimpse of the past lineage.
Fascinating stuff, this.
Best, Jim

Fascinating stuff, this.

Agreed. As a matter of fact, I bought that Basque red from Chambers Street just last week. Any relative of cab franc is welcome in my home anytime.

Curious stuff and probably in need of 4-5 years in the cellar.
Best, Jim

Florida Jim wrote:If I understand correctly, it is cousin to cabernet franc; judging from the flavor profile, I'd say that's likely.

That great invention by an American researcher (Dr. Carole Meredith, formerly of the U. of California-Davis), DNA fingerprinting, has now shown that there is no botanical relationship beween mencía and cabernet franc.

There are good Bierzo wines that are even cheaper than Pétalos on the US market: below $16 you'll find Pucho, Luna Beberide Mencía, Dominio de Tares Baltos. For a little more, Bodegas Estefanía's excellent Pagos de Posada.

Victor,
I didn't know Carole had published on that - thanks.
I have had the Dominio de Tares bottom-end bottling and enjoyed it. I'll look for the others - the grape does interest me if its is kept away from (too much) wood.
Best, Jim

The Baltos is, I think, the bottom end bottling from Tares for the US market. Re Carole: no, she didn't do any study of mencía AFAIK. It was the large El Encín viticultural lab near Madrid, which has worked closely with her on a number of projects and uses her methods (as do all the leading labs in Europe).

Victor de la Serna wrote:The Baltos is, I think, the bottom end bottling from Tares for the US market.

That could be I just never noticed that word on the label of the bottling I tried. 'Doesn't mean it wasn't there . . .
Best, Jim

Victor de la Serna wrote:(...)

Hey, Victor, glad to see you on one of the best forums arounds — a very warm welcome!

Thanks, Michael. Actually, I've been a (sometimes controversial) member of this forum for more than 10 years. I was just lost in one of its address changes and only recently did I find my way back!