Question on white wines and alcohol levels.

Robin's poll on Netscape made me wonder a bit about what the "normal" range of alcohol is for white wines. I've been primarily a red wine drinker for over ten years, and have a pretty good idea of what's normal for reds and dessert wines.

I'm just starting to systematcially study white wines, and I haven't found a very good source that indicates what the various white wines normally log in with.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks, Bob

[Robin Garr]

Fair question, Bob. It seems to me that there's broader variation among the popular types, but - perhaps concurrent with the "alcohol creep" that we've been discussing in other threads - many of the popular white-wine styles are creeping into what used to be red-wine ranges, and I'm not convinced that there's as much difference as there used to be.

Certainly Chardonnay, particularly New World but even White Burgundy - is commonplace in the 13+ range, with some California big boys well over 14.

But without checking the label, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that a lot of NZ Sauvignons are pressing the 13 limit. And with the possible exception of quality Germans, which tend to be light, and bless 'em for it (but which also trade alcohol for residual sugar), I don't think it's very common at all to find many whites below 12 any more.

OK Bob at random I pulled these out........!

`98 Bests Gt Western Riesling 12 %.
`90 Rheingau Spatlese 9%.
`04 Seppelts P Gris 12%.
`88 Matsvani Vaseaux Cellars 11.2%.
`93 Late harvest Muscat,Tolley 9.5%

Yeah, I know a couple of clunkers there!!!

But without checking the label, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that a lot of NZ Sauvignons are pressing the 13 limit. And with the possible exception of quality Germans, which tend to be light, and bless 'em for it (but which also trade alcohol for residual sugar), I don't think it's very common at all to find many whites below 12 any more.

Except for most German wines.

Many sweet wines have moderate alcohol because the sugar hasn't been turned into alcohol. Even the NZ Sauvignons that have some RS (most of them, in my experience) will be slightly lower in alcohol as a result).

two points:
1. any CA chard that is under 14% has probably been partially through the spinning cone - i.e. has been slightly de-alcoholized.
2. the alcohol on the label - if under 14% need only be accurate to within 1.5% by vol. - so, 12.9% on the label could actually be anywhere from 11.4% to 13.99%. i use the label as a ball park figure.

[Robin Garr]

Any help appreciated.

Bob, I didn't take detailed notes, but a quick spin through the first eight or 10 whites in my tasting queue found only two under 12, both of them listed at 11.5%: An Abymes Vin de Savoie and a Nigl GV. Most of the others, ranging from Portuguese Alvarinho to Luneau-Papin Muscadet, were 12 or 12.5%, and the random Chard, as David points out, well over 13.

David also makes a good point, as others have in these threads, that the 1.5% margin of error leaves a lot of wiggle room. My feeling, though, is that so many producers list precise numbers within the 11-13 range, that relatively few producers are taking advantage of the loose reg. Unless I get strong information to the contrary, I'm going to assume that most alcohol listings are reasonably accurate.

I'd say that for those I usually drink it's 7,5% (German Rieslings) to 12,5% (top quality Muscadets, Alsace Rieslings). Anything below or above is a bit strange for me. But we have to understand that Tokaji Eszencia at 3% and Chardonnays at 14% aren't an anomaly in their respective styles.

Robin's poll on Netscape made me wonder a bit about what the "normal" range of alcohol is for white wines. I've been primarily a red wine drinker for over ten years, and have a pretty good idea of what's normal for reds and dessert wines.

Thanks, Bob

Hi Bob, You really need to sub-classify 'white wines'.
In New Zealand there is a trend for lower alcohol Rieslings. In fact one producer, Forrest Estate, has just released his 'Doctor's Riesling' with just 8.5% alcohol. It is his prescription for drinking in moderation.

Last year, after the international publicity on high alcohol wines, I did a little survey on wines in my database for an article in a magazine. All were NZ wines, however and were wines I had entered into my database during 2005. The alcohol levels came from the labels, which I also know are not always true to the alcohol in the wine, as the label laws allow for a +-1.5% variation.

From 170 chardonnay labels, 70% of the labels displayed 13.5% or 14% alcohol by volume and only eight wines had more.
From 140 pinot noirs, two-thirds had 13.5% to 14% alcohol with only nine having more.
From 150 sauvignon blanc's, two-thirds had 13% alcohol or less, a quarter had 13.5% alcohol while only nine wines had more.

Incidentally, while label laws allow the alcohol statement variation, I believe there is no such variation allowed in the standard drinks statement, so a wise consumer can work out the actual alcohol level if they so wish. Much of the time it does not vary but some of the time it does. More so in robust red wines, like shiraz, though.

Cheers,
Sue

Looking at the wines in my cellar, I find the following things:

Mount Mary Chardonnay (97,00,02,04) 13-13.5%
Tyrrells Hunter Chardonnay Vat 47 (00,02) 13-13.9%

Clare & Eden Valley Rieslings (ranging 92-05) 12.5-13.5

Hunter Semillons (ranging 92-06) 9.6-12%, with most hovering around 11%

Generally older wines tend to be half a point lower, but there generally hasn't been the 'alcohol inflation' among Australian whites (viognier and some chardonnays excepted) that the reds have suffered...

cheers,
Graeme

Don't forget the 14% and 15% Savennieres. Damned schist.

And then we had some 14% 05 Muller Catoir trockens this weekend that at first glance/taste seems ripe, zesty, and spicy, but, yes, a bit hot as well..

Best not to try too many generalizations. But, it's all good info above.