Grape Press Which One ??

I have been reading a lot today on presses today. I need a good model for my hobby and want to get the right one the first time. I have read that the one made of wood (basket) needs to have the wood painted often and they wonder where this paint or shellac goes. Is that safe? Also, I can choose SS. What has been peoples experience with presses and which is the better buy. This reminds me of when I bough the Corona corn mill for Malt and ended up buying a roller mill to get the job done. I want to get it right this time.

BTW...I'm new to the list, looking forward to sharing

I'm still using cheesecloth and a seive, so I can't really offer knowledgeable advice.

St. Pats (http://www.stpats.com) has a few choices to pick from. I am thinking of the hand-powered crusher/destemmer before a press.

We rented a wooden press a couple years ago, but it was filthy, and the head winemaker (my wife Pam) would not let me use it. If I ever get to buying a press, I think I would go wth the stainless.

Jim..How many LB's do you crush at a time with that method?

I've never worked with white wine grapes at all, but for reds, you press after fermenting. We had about 3.5 gallons of must; after fermenting and extended maceration, we siphoned off the wine till we got to the remaining skins, seed and some stems; all this sinks to the bottom during extended maceration. That was what we pressed with the seive and cheesecloth.

We crush by hand also, just crush the grapes and put the juice, skin and pulp into a fermentation bucket. This year, we produced 3.25 gallons of must from merlot and syrah, but did not weigh them first. We picked about 95 lbs. of zins today. I'll post later about how much must we get.

Jim...What do you mean we press after fermenting? I have read that but dont understand. I thought you could pick the grapes, say Cabernet Sauvignon, and go straight to the press. Is that not the case?

Crushing comes before fermentation. Grapes are picked, then crushed and destemmed. This is not pressing. Crushing breaks the skin and disrupts the pulp, releasing the juice. Stems are removed at this step also. Everything except the stems is placed in the fermenting container.

After the fermentation is complete(days to weeks after crushing), the solids are squeezed to remove the liquid. This is pressing.

Remember, this is to make red wine. For whites, I think pressing is done the same day as crushing, before fermentation. There are very knowledgeable people who post here that can help with that process.

Welcome to the forum Johnny. I don't have an answer but Howie or one of the other wine makers here will chime in soon.

We have a wooden basket press that one of my winemaking buddies made. (He's an extremely talented woodworker.) It's unpainted, and I don't know why anyone would paint one - the wine stains the wood very nicely in very short order. We press 1-2 tons each harvest, for what that's worth.

I would suggest trying to find a place that will rent you a press. Many beer and wine supply shops will do this. That will give you a chance to try out some different types. You can often buy the used models at a discount after they've been rented a few times as well. Same goes for crusher-stemmers - the other somewhat expensive item you'll need to make wine in substantial quantities.

How much are you looking at pressing, Johnny? (And welcome to the forum!)


Mike

I have a very old (70+ years) wooden press with a metal screw for leverage. It can press about 3 bushels of grapes at a time. The screw applies pressure down from the top to a platen, but does not extend down through the middle of the basket as some models do. The wood basket is unpainted and I scrub it with a mixture of soda ash and sodium bi-sulfite solution before using. Below the basket is wooden grate that sets on top of the base, allowing the juice to drain from the bottom as well as the sides. The base has cracks, which could leak, so I line it with a clear plastic bag. I've been planning on re-building if for a ferw years, but never seem to find the time. If I were to build one, I believe a simple one could be made using a similar design, but instead of using a screw mechanism, one could use an old bumper jack - simple, strong device with a lot of room.

I started out making all grain beer and now want to switch over to wine. I have about 30 grape plants on order and have the perfect place to plant them. My plan was to start with wine kits and get up to speed and then switch to my own grapes. There are many vineyards near my house. I went to one Sat. and found out that in two weeks I can buy grapes from them for $1/#. That kind of puts me on the spot because I only have a short time to learn how to process them. I thought I could just press the red grapes and then freeze the juice in something like milk jugs. Then I would learn on the kits and come back to the frozen juice later.

Johnny - I wouldn't recommend kits. The wine, while basically sound, is not the best quality. Secondly, you will not learn much from using a kit that will help you in a winemaking hobby, such as crushing, pressing, testing for acid and sugar. First of all, click on the following link from the Wine Lovers Front Page and download The Home Winemakers Manual:
LINK
This is a very well written book and includes more information than you need to know.
$1.00/lb. is a bit high for grapes, but that depends on the variety. Labrusca can be had for less than $20 per bushel (about 50 lbs.), hybrids $25 to $35 or so and vineferas $40 to $65. Each bushel will yield about 3 1/2 gallons. If there is a facility near you tha sells fresh pressed juice, it would be easier and prices range from $4/gal for Labrusca to $11 for vinefera.
Regarding a press, if you are making reds, a press is not that critical. Reds are fermented in contact with the skins (stems removed) for several days to 2 weeks. The pulp is totally broken down by this time and straining out the skins and seeds through a cloth and squeezing the cloth out is all that is necessary. Whites are different, as they are pressed immediately after crushing.
BTW - what varieties of grapes are you planting?

I have been reading a lot today on presses today. I need a good model for my hobby and want to get the right one the first time. I have read that the one made of wood (basket) needs to have the wood painted often and they wonder where this paint or shellac goes. Is that safe?

I have long thought about the exact same thing. I should buy a press but they are extremely expensive, and the wooden ones strike me as relics - not something that you can clean properly as you can stainless steel. Wood is porous and while in times past perhaps that's all they had to work with, stainless steel or very tough food-grade plastic are far superior materials in my humble opinion.

I was thinking of buying a steel press this year but held back because I couldn't find any decent Concords to buy (those that made it to the wine stands around town were half unripe and half moldy due to the miserable September we had). Even though the press is relatively small, it still is almost $300. Frankly I don't know why these things are so bloody expensive. I think it's a supply-demand thing, and I also think that the suppliers are frankly gouging the home winemaking public. Who has the tools, materials and know-how to design and build a press from scratch?

In any case, I don't like the wooden basket presses myself.

... the wooden ones strike me as relics - not something that you can clean properly as you can stainless steel. Wood is porous and while in times past perhaps that's all they had to work with, stainless steel or very tough food-grade plastic are far superior materials in my humble opinion.....In any case, I don't like the wooden basket presses myself.

Paul - I may cry foul here. How many presses have you used? I think judging wooden presses without experience is like judging labrusca and hybrids without tasting them.
Hardwoods such as oak and maple are not very porous. The basket and parts that contact the fruit should be left untreated and can easily be sanitized in the manner I described above. The design of a press, while a simple principle, can be quite complex, with angles, curves and gaps. Wood is a much easier material to work with than stainless steel and is also much less expensive. For the amount I make, a wooden basket press is ideal. If I were to start a winery, I would the opt for a bladder-type SS press.

Actually, Howie, another reason I have to favour the steel presses is that I can't see how one can press slipskin grapes through a basket press without using some kind of cheesecloth or porous nylon bag or something - wouldn't the skins and pulps just shoot out all over the place? I've nothing against those for whom the basket presses work actually using them, but I am really not inclined to buy one for myself. I do need a press of some kind, but will probably just bite the bullet and order the steel one I saw online.

... I can't see how one can press slipskin grapes through a basket press without using some kind of cheesecloth or porous nylon bag or something - wouldn't the skins and pulps just shoot out all over the place?

Not necessarily. Its a matter of technique. Some people use nylon pressing bags. I don't. The skins actually form a "cake" if you will, around the open slats, holding the pulp, skins and seeds inside the press while letting the juice gently flow. It takes a while, as the pressure inside the basket builds up when screwing down and then subsides as the juice is released. It can't be rushed as the pressure can be too great. Sometimes a bit of seeds, pulp and skins do slip through, but this is easily handled by a strainer over the funnel when pouring the juice into the carboy. The other good thing about wood is that it actually stands up to greater pressure than stainless, which could easily bend out of shape if not properly re-enforced. Plastic would create all kinds of complications in design.

The straining bag only works with the screw over the basket, not like the newer models with split baskets and the screw located in the center of the basket. Another good idea is to wrap plastic around the outside of the basket, this keeps juice from squirting all over the place I have a 100 year old combination crusher and press. The crusher is no longer used we replaced it a few years back with a motorized crusher de-stemmer.

Salute