WineLovers Discussion Group

2004 Domaine du Closel Clos du Papillon Savennières Loire. $23. Imp: Dressner. 14.8% abv.
I haven’t had many savennières so we were venturing off into fairly unchartered territory. Damn, this is good and it’s everything as advertised. Deep flavors of honey, beeswax, and mango with a rich, round, slightly oily feel. Lots of mineral and chalk on the lengthy dry finish. The depth just grows with lots of vigorous aeration. Very nice balance. This sure is fun to drink.

Bill Buitenhuys wrote:2004 Domaine du Closel Clos du Papillon Savennières Loire. $23. Imp: Dressner. 14.8% abv.
I haven’t had many savennières so we were venturing off into fairly unchartered territory. Damn, this is good and it’s everything as advertised. Deep flavors of honey, beeswax, and mango with a rich, round, slightly oily feel. Lots of mineral and chalk on the lengthy dry finish. The depth just grows with lots of vigorous aeration. Very nice balance. This sure is fun to drink.

14.8!!!
Not one for the cellar, I'd wager.
Best, Jim

14.8!!!
Not one for the cellar, I'd wager.

Ya, it's a whopper but it doesnt feel at all hot. Having such little experience with this type of wine, I'm really interested in your thoughts on aging. It sure took alot of aerating and swirling to get it to really open up.

Thanks Bill for the note.

I really liked the 04 Jalousie from Closel, and can't wait to try the Papillon. The Jalousie is from younger vines or something, but it is a wonderful dry Chenin also well worth seeking out.

it is a wonderful dry Chenin also well worth seeking out.

Thanks, Marc! I've started a short shopping list.

Bill Buitenhuys wrote:

14.8!!!
Not one for the cellar, I'd wager.

Ya, it's a whopper but it doesnt feel at all hot. Having such little experience with this type of wine, I'm really interested in your thoughts on aging. It sure took alot of aerating and swirling to get it to really open up.

Bill,
I'm no expert but I don't like those kind of alcohols to begin with and think that aging only emphasizes that trait. But lots of folks feel different.
Best, Jim

Florida Jim wrote:

Bill Buitenhuys wrote:

14.8!!!
Not one for the cellar, I'd wager.

Ya, it's a whopper but it doesnt feel at all hot. Having such little experience with this type of wine, I'm really interested in your thoughts on aging. It sure took alot of aerating and swirling to get it to really open up.

Bill,
I'm no expert but I don't like those kind of alcohols to begin with and think that aging only emphasizes that trait. But lots of folks feel different.
Best, Jim

I have always aged my Saviennieres for a few years, up to ten in fact. One of my main buys when I visit London.

I have always aged my Saviennieres for a few years, up to ten in fact. One of my main buys when I visit London.

Any favorites, Bob?

The ones I look out for are the Soulez brothers at Ch. de Chamboureau, the Roche aux Moines is one of their best, Bill. Also Baumard`s Clos des Perrieres, which La Vigneronne used to stock. Closel is on a par I`d say!

Florida Jim wrote:

Bill Buitenhuys wrote:

14.8!!!
Not one for the cellar, I'd wager.

Ya, it's a whopper but it doesnt feel at all hot. Having such little experience with this type of wine, I'm really interested in your thoughts on aging. It sure took alot of aerating and swirling to get it to really open up.

Bill,
I'm no expert but I don't like those kind of alcohols to begin with and think that aging only emphasizes that trait. But lots of folks feel different.
Best, Jim

Yes, but Jim, Savennieres is one of those places that levels of alcohol are often higher than perceived, at least in my experience, not yours? (There's a long complex explanation involving soil, and a lack of drainage compared to the wetter limestone in Vouvray and Montlouis, according to Papin)

As far as aging the 04 Closel Papillon of course they have aged well in previous vintages. And, in my brief tasting I don't remember noting it as acid deficient despite the juicy fruit, although it was a while ago. However, remember that this forward juiciness is the result of the new regime starting in 02, so the fact that Closel wines from previous decades have aged well is not necessarily evidence that this 04 will. But, nothing like buying a bunch to keep around and find out.

But, nothing like buying a bunch to keep around and find out.

Sage advice. That's why we're here, after all.

I quite like the 2002 of this wine. Similar alcohol yet surprisingly well contained:

• 2002 Domaine du Closel Savennières Clos du Papillon - France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Savennières (2/10/2005)
  Cru (New York, NY): Mmm, this is right on the mark, very smooth and seamless yet amazingly rich with honey and mineral. I think the bottle in question had been open for a while, but compared to an earlier taste this was more integrated with nary a rough edge to be found. Frankly, it is stunning (and hard to believe) that this wine is packing in 14.9% alcohol, as it is just not obtrusive at all, gorgeous! (90 pts.)
• 2002 Domaine du Closel Savennières Clos du Papillon - France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Savennières (10/12/2004)
  Served with an Asian meal of: black cod marinated in sake curd and broiled (wow!!!); Chinese long beans sauteed in garlic and ginger; steamed baby bok chok dressed with a vinaigrette of soy/rice vinegar/sesame oil and steamed white rice. Despite the heavy Asian influence, the wine easily held its own with the food. The oily, rich and intense black cod was complemented exceptionally well by the similarly oily and intense wine, and the acidity was cleansing. Yum!
  
  Gorgeous straw color. The nose is slightly sharp smelling with hints of plastic and some honey and citrus in the distance. On the palate this is coating and oily with fantastic body. Wow, the rich mouthfeel is clearly the best feature of the wine. You can feel the 14.9% alcohol, but it isn't intrusive. I like (and am stealing) the "fig" and "almond" descriptors from a Wine Spectator review, and the long finish dances on your tounge with gorgeous notes of honey, mineral and tangerine. This has nice acidity and balance without being bracing and also succeeds at being both ripe and fresh. (90 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

Florida Jim wrote:

Bill Buitenhuys wrote:2004 Domaine du Closel Clos du Papillon Savennières Loire. $23. Imp: Dressner. 14.8% abv.
I haven’t had many savennières so we were venturing off into fairly unchartered territory. Damn, this is good and it’s everything as advertised. Deep flavors of honey, beeswax, and mango with a rich, round, slightly oily feel. Lots of mineral and chalk on the lengthy dry finish. The depth just grows with lots of vigorous aeration. Very nice balance. This sure is fun to drink.

14.8!!!
Not one for the cellar, I'd wager.
Best, Jim

I'd take that bet.

Eric, thanks for the note on the '02. Sounds lovely and like the '04 there is no sign of 14+% abv. Wonderful stuff.

I hope they haven't changed style.

I always figure a decent Sav needs about 6 - 7 years for the acidity to fade to the point that the wine is balanced. I enjoy the style and also having a white wine that I do not fear to forget about in the cellar for a few years.

When you have a large cellar, the usual whites are like a rack of alarm clocks going off, saying 'drink me, drink me', making me feel guilty lest they slide over the hill while my attention is focussed elsewhere for a year or three. Good German Rieslings, better chards (mostly Burgs) and Savennieres take the pressure off.

Heaven knows I have enough people nagging me to do something or other without having to worry about the wines getting into the act!

Bill Spohn wrote:I hope they haven't changed style.

Who? Closel?

02 was the first vintage where the daughter had control, so she went for longer hang-time, battonage, etc, and the wines are noticeably richer, but also with riper acids and the 02 and 04 were hardly caricatures of themselves, so, things look good for the future..

Rahsaan wrote:

Bill Spohn wrote:I hope they haven't changed style.

Who? Closel?

Yup - an old favourite of mine.