German wines in the cellar!!

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German wines in the cellar!!

Postby Bob Parsons Alberta » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:09 am

I was going through my cellar last evening and was surprised to find quite a few older Rheingaus and Mosels there, early to mid `90s. Any other forumites thinking maybe it is time to consider drinking up some of these excellent wines? I was wondering what is the lifespan of a good Rheingau from a respectable vintage?
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Re: German wines in the cellar!!

Postby Bruce Hayes » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:34 am

What level are the wines Bob? I mean, are they Kabinetts or higher. That, along with the vintage and the vineyard, will be a determining factor on when to drink.
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Re: German wines in the cellar!!

Postby Bill Hooper » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:23 pm

Bruce Hayes wrote:What level are the wines Bob? I mean, are they Kabinetts or higher. That, along with the vintage and the vineyard, will be a determining factor on when to drink.



I would add personal preference as well. While I think most people would appreciate older MSR Spaetlese and Auslese. Drier aged Rheingau, if that's what you have, (just like any aged dry white) is apt to be more of an aquired taste. Still, I would think most if not all of them would be drinkable. If anything too young.


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Sweetness

Postby Anders Källberg » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:54 pm

I'd like to add that the level of sweetness in the wines is also an important factor in deciding about the state of these wines. Sweeter wines last longer, simply. Like Peter von Weimarn, then at Heyl zu Hernsheim, once explained to me: "I think the wine wants to have something to do in the bottle" He meant that the sugar gave it something to slowly consume during the long, lonely years in the bottle. Nice thought, anyway!
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Re: Sweetness

Postby Bob Parsons Alberta » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:57 am

Thanks Anders for the note about the "level of sweetness". Naturally vintage conditions can play an important role even in an off-year I suppose. Until recently, I did not pay too much attention to the year on the bottle so may have some clunkers in the cellar! But not these I hope.....

`96 Scharzhofberger Riesling Kabinett-Hohe Domkirche.

`94 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese-J J Prum.

`89 Graacher Himmelreich R Spatlese-F W Gymnasium.
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Re: Sweetness

Postby Bob Parsons Alberta » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:52 am

Wondering which of those 3 I should try first!!!
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Trying first

Postby Jim Vandegriff » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:10 pm

If it were me personally, I would try the 89 Graacher Himmelreich R Spatlese-F W Gymnasium. then the `96 Scharzhofberger Riesling Kabinett-Hohe Domkirche, then the `94 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese-J J Prum. My guess is that they are all ready, and you should get a good older german riesling experience from each (depending on storage, etc, of course). Let us know what you try and notes from each. I'll look forward to hearing... Jim (a lover of fine Prum Wehlener's).
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Re: Trying first

Postby Bob Parsons Alberta » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:21 pm

Thanks Jim. Any idea where one can get more info on German wines/tasting notes/chit chat etc?
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Re: Trying first

Postby Bill Hooper » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:23 pm

Bob,

I'm a fan of the VDP website http://vdp.de. There is an english section which isn't as up to date as the german. Good info on VDP estates and upcoming events and such. With all of the German wine fans on the WLDG, maybe another forum should be added here just for us :D


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Re: Trying first

Postby Clint Hall » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:36 am

Terry Thiese's Rules of Thumb:

KABINETT peaks from 4-6 years (if it's true Kab and not declassified Auslese) and shouldn't fade until about age 15.

SPATLESE peaks 7-10 years and shouldn't fade until about 25.
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Re: Trying first

Postby David M. Bueker » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:22 am

Clint Hall wrote:Terry Thiese's Rules of Thumb:

KABINETT peaks from 4-6 years (if it's true Kab and not declassified Auslese) and shouldn't fade until about age 15.

SPATLESE peaks 7-10 years and shouldn't fade until about 25.


A little bit oversimplified ( Terry actually says much more in his catalogs at http://www.skurnikwines.com ), as the peaks for both wines last much longer than 2 or 3 years. Kabinett only begins to open back up from sleep at age 5 or so, and spatlese takes longer.

All that said, the Prum is still very young, and the other two wines should be at peak or even going down the other side of the slope, as both producers have done nothing special in decades.
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Re: Trying first

Postby Bob Parsons Alberta » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:00 am

Jim Vandegriff wrote:If it were me personally, I would try the 89 Graacher Himmelreich R Spatlese-F W Gymnasium. then the `96 Scharzhofberger Riesling Kabinett-Hohe Domkirche, then the `94 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese-J J Prum. My guess is that they are all ready, and you should get a good older german riesling experience from each (depending on storage, etc, of course). Let us know what you try and notes from each. I'll look forward to hearing... Jim (a lover of fine Prum Wehlener's).


Thanks Jim and will give your suggestion a try. What is the track record of FWG? David B seemed to think it was spotty? I googled but came up with very little.
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Prüm last

Postby Anders Källberg » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:02 pm

Bob, of those three you should definitely drink the J. J. Prüm last. His wines are know to be very slow developers. I always guess several years too young when I taste them blind.
I hope you will enjoy them!
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Re: Prüm last

Postby Jim Vandegriff » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:16 pm

I haven't had much experience with the FWG, but I did have a 1994 Prum auslese recently that was really wonderful, and still quite youthful, with the beginnings of secondary characteristics showing. Much depends I think on your stylistic preference, and opening these bottles will aid your education I would guess. Enjoy them, and let us know how they are. Jim
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Re: Prüm last

Postby Bob Parsons Alberta » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:40 pm

Jim and Anders, thanks for the replies! I have posted tasting notes/my impressions on the current Open Mike thread. Should not take you long to find them...hopefully!! The Scharzhofberger was a real surprise.
Rahsann has also posted some neat tasting notes on some other wines he tasted recently.
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