WineLovers Discussion Group

Matt Richman wrote:Can someone profile recent vintages in the region?

This is the best I can do! It is rather general eh. Others might have a better lay-out. I will email Jim Budd.

http://www.intowine.com/loire-valley-fr ... tage-chart

A Loire vintage chart is by definition a problem, as it encompasses way too much geography and so many diferent wine varieties that easy categoriation is impossible.

I'll just say that I have really loved Muscadet from 2002, 2005 and 2007; Vouvray/Montlouis from 2000, 2002, 2004, 2005 and 2007; and Savennieres from 2002 and 2005 (so far). I don't know enough about Chinon to comment.

David M. Bueker wrote:A Loire vintage chart is by definition a problem, as it encompasses way too much geography and so many diferent wine varieties that easy categoriation is impossible.

I'll just say that I have really loved Muscadet from 2002, 2005 and 2007; Vouvray/Montlouis from 2000, 2002, 2004, 2005 and 2007; and Savennieres from 2002 and 2005 (so far). I don't know enough about Chinon to comment.

I fully agree. Indeed even as "averages" there are some very weird judgements on that link. Worst vintage being 1992 with 82 points = good ; 1991 being shown as better than 1990 and so on .

To add to what David says, this is my generalised take on the reds from Chinon, Bourgueil and Saumur-Champigny -
1989 some wonderful wines
1990 very good
1993 some decent wines but some ripeness problems
1995 very good with a tendency to dry tannins
1996 took ages to come round due to high acidity but many now really delicious in a classical Loire vein
1997 a ripe vintage which appeals to those not often attracted by Loire reds
1998 considered mediocre at first but I have had some very attractive bottles lately
2000 sound
2002 attractive classical vintage with a tendency in some wines to green tannins
2003 over-ripe like 1997 but more so but some very fine wines with little Loire typicity
2004 classical Loire
2005 ripe vintage with well structured wines some for the long haul
2006 often supple fruity wines very attractive now but ? ageing ability
2007 tendency to thin wines bit some very attractive for early drinking
2008 & 2009 haven't had any but well regarded

These are generalisations. Good growers produce attractive wines from most vintages in the style of the year though 91, 92 and 94 defeated many.

Bob, I look forward to reading what you get out of Jim.

Starting out with some Vouvray

2005 François Chidaine Vouvray Les Argiles
A quick, minor gripe before I get to the wine. I wish Chidaine would use the Sec, Demi-Sec nomenclature on the wines. That said, this was a very nice bottle that essentially stradled the line between those two designaitons. There was a very subtle bit of sweetness that set off the yellow fruit elements, but was fully consumed by the acidity and minerality of the wine. There's plenty of wax/wool Chenin typicity, and good balance for aging potential. Nice.

David M. Bueker wrote:
2005 François Chidaine Vouvray Les Argiles
A quick, minor gripe before I get to the wine. I wish Chidaine would use the Sec, Demi-Sec nomenclature on the wines.

Minor gripe but not a minor problem, IMO. I have some bottles from Chidaine where I can't remember if the wine is dry or demi-sec. If Foreau and Huet can give an indication, why can't Chidaine and Fouquet from Aubisières? I'll try to remember to ask him next time he comes to Brussels.

It's even worse in Alsace, where I'm sure they must lose a lot of sales.

For some reason I am more fogiving of ambiuity in Riesling/Gewurztraminer/Pinot Gris.

Agreed, I have two Chidaine Montlouis in my cellar and had to note whether off dry or dry on my cellar spreadsheet...

Oswaldo Costa wrote:Agreed, I have two Chidaine Montlouis in my cellar and had to note whether off dry or dry on my cellar spreadsheet...

David Schildknecht did a pretty good job of describing the sweetness levels of the 2005 Chidaine bottlings in his Wine Advocate reviews. I just forgot to look. As it was ,the Argiles was a fantastic sushi match!

Chidaine's website does indicate the dryness/sweetness of cuvées in current vintages, so why not on the label's ? I suspect that the sweetness level differs from vintage to vintage so that fact that Clos Habert was sec in 2007 may not help me with my own bottles, 2001 I think.

Loire Reds March 3, 2010

1. Ch.de la Bonneliere Touraine (CabFranc; 12.5%) 2008: $13.00 (K&L)
2. LesRoches AC: Touraine (MeBalP; 12%) LesVignerons des CoteauxRomanais 2007: $10.00 (K&L)
3. Dom.Richou AC: Anjou Les 4 Chemins (13%; www.Vintage59.com) Damien et Didier
Richou/Moze/Loue 2006: $15.00 (K&L)
4. Cave de Saumur AC: Saumur (CabFranc; 12%; MeBalP) 2007: $13.00 (K&L)

5. Catherine & Pierre Breton LesGalichets AC: Bourgueil (BioDynamic; www.DomaineBreton.net;
CabFranc; 12%) 2007: $19.00 (K&L)
6. Domaine Pied de la Butte AC: Bourgueil (MeBalP; LaPied de la Butte; 12.5%) Viticulteurs:
Jacky Blot 2007: $16.00 (K&L)
7. Domaine de la Chevalerie Galichets AC: Bourgueil (13%; CabFranc) Stephanie, Emmanuel & Pierre
Caslot 2006: $22.00 (K&L)

8. Dom. de la Noblaie LesChiens-Chiens Rouge AC: Chinon (CabFranc; 13.5%; MeBalP)
JeromeBillard 2006: $16.00 (K&L)
9. Couly-Dutheil LaBaronnie Madeleine AC: Chinon (CabFranc; 12.5%) 2007: $18.00 (K&L)
10. Couly-Dutheil Clos de l'Echo AC: Chinon (CabFranc; 12.5%) 2002: $20.00 (K&L)
11. Bernard Baudry LesGrezeaux AC: Chinon (CabFranc; 13%; MeBalP) 2007: $22.00 (K&L)
12. Bernard Baudry LesClosGuillot AC: Chinon (CabFranc; 12.5%; MeBalP) 2007: $24.00 (K&L)
13. Clos des Capucins AC: Chinon (13.5%) Jean-Maurice Raffault/LaMinutiere/Savigny-en-Veron 2006:
$26.00 (K&L)
14. Charles Joguet Clos de la Dioterie AC: Chinon (CabFranc; 14%; MeBalP; www.CharlesJoguet.com)
2005: $42.00 (K&L)
15. Norm/Barb Mystery:
16. Tom mystery wine:

Matt Richman wrote:2007 Yannick Amirault Bourgueil La Coudraye (France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil)
Really nice. Full flavored fruit with a tight acidic bite and a suave, classy burnt oak profile. Some green herbal notes and a compact acidic finish with a hint of flowers. Overall very pretty and enjoyable, full of class. This is a wine I would drink all the time for this price.
B/B-

First a quick greeting, this being my first post in the esteemed assembled company. I am not sure what any of you have done in a past life to deserve the karmic retribution that will certainly be evident in the form of the pain of having to read my postings, or at least skip over my postings, but be assured that retribution is here and in full effect. I was under the misapprehension that since I had garnered much good advice and avenues of discovery over the past few months of lurking on this forum that I should in fairness return some wisdom back, or at the very least give the "benefit" of my nascent perspective on vin supping.

I am joining you from the world of craft beer & spirits, so please excuse the fact that much of my vocabulary and knowledge is grain based.

I've been told I'm a bit verbose too.

As far as the above referenced Bourguiel, I picked up a bottle at the recently opened Weygandt store in Cleveland Park here in DC. They had it out for tasting and rather flipped for it. It's a bit wild and wooly, though at the same time exhibits a bit of refinement. Don't know if that's actually possible but that's how I taste it. While I do get much of the mushroom and great outdoors, I didn't really get the Brett tang that was mentioned by another poster earlier. I'm familiar with brett in it's more extreme guises (Gueuze Lambic) and it's been noted in some wines of a supposedly rustic character I've encountered but I didn't pick up on it here. This has nice complexity but is not so brain busting as to preclude a bit of quaffing. In a word I like how it's balanced even though it's got a lot of the forest going on. I intent to try some of this bottle's cousins (Yannick Amirault Pavillon du Grand Clos Bourgueil Quartiers 2006 and the Yannick Amirault Pavillon du Grand Clos St. Nicolas de Bourgueil Les Malganges 2006).

I have some thoughts on the whole Gamay thing but since there related to hunks of ground other than the Loire, I'll save 'em.

k.

Welcome, great start. All our palates are different so call it the way you see/taste it! You are the first female Loire-head here so extra special person!!

Thanks for the kind welcome. Unfortunately in spite of my apparently female given name, "I'm a Boy" as the Who once sang. Though like Pete Townsend I'm in touch with my feminine side.

Oooops, well you are extra special! Washington eh, must be some excellent wine stores?

Bob Parsons Alberta. wrote:Oooops, well you are extra special! Washington eh, must be some excellent wine stores?

No worries. As far as wine stores I think we do ok here in DC. If you want recommendations, from those who know far more than myself, I'd be happy to provide them.

More Chenin:

2004 Domaine du Closel Savennières Clos du Papillon
This is an excellent bottle of Chenin Blanc. Its seems a little bit sweeter than the Chidaine I had last night, but that may be due to its greater textural richness. Aromatically it's a stunner with all the waxy, woolly, warm fruit you can stuff into one bottle. I am very impressed at hte way the aromatics penetrate from the palate, and the finish is noticeably long. It's developing some aged character already, so I am glad I opened it now, but boy is it ever good.

2008 Thierry Puzelat Touraine Pinot Noir 12.0%
Fragrant sour cherry aromas mingled with church spices, fruity and charming, given backbone by stemminess. Vibrant acidity, well balanced by sweetness, ending in a welcome touch of bitterness. Charming.

Savennières Cuvée Spéciale 1996 - Château d'Epiré - Alc.13% has so far proved the only satisfactory wine (and then only after a decade) out of a disappointing assorted purchase of 3 dozen at this estate in the late 90s. Its colour was deep yellow but there were no signs of oxidation of the nose and palate (Germaine disagreed mentioning Arbois which I did not get). The nose was subdued at first but bloomed somewhat giving aromas of honeyed minerals, nuts, wax and hints of apple and pear pie. The palate was quite full, rich, long and seamless with lively mouth-watering acidity and burnished fruit enhancing the aromas. Did I imagine a touch of cabbage on the finish or was it a bad interaction with some ginger in the sauce? 16/20.

Bonnet-Huteau Muscadet de Sevre et Maine Sur Lie Les Dabinieres 2008
$13.99 (what is it with this price point? I keep running in to it.)

The copy from the website says "Pear skin, lime, plum pit, and salt combine in an exuberant, invigorating, and shimmering mineral-fruit exchange that leaves the palate refreshed and positively aquiver." I probably didn't let it warm up/open up enough but I didn't really get any pear but I did get a fair bit of mineral. Lime seems the fairly common descriptor for whites that offer any acidity. I won't say my palate was "aquiver" either, though it was a nice enough wine. Yes, this wine was very polite. Good manners and all but if it was sat in a room it would be over in the corner minding it's own business. I was expecting a little bit more of a ruckus. Doesn't Muscadet imply some sort ruckus, at least aromatically? Good summer wine I'd hazard.

Oswaldo Costa wrote:2008 Thierry Puzelat Touraine Pinot Noir 12.0%
Fragrant sour cherry aromas mingled with church spices,

What are "church spices"?

Kelly Young wrote:What are "church spices"?

Think of the incense in a Catholic church.

Rahsaan wrote:

Kelly Young wrote:What are "church spices"?

Think of the incense in a Catholic church.

Ah! Neither the hint of the sweet (ginger, cinnamon, nutmeg ,etc.) nor the zip of the savory (white pepper, thyme, rosemary, etc.) but the subtle perfume of divine guidance/retribution. I likes. In nomine Pinot et Reisling et Spiritus Syrah.

Kelly Young wrote: In nomine Pinot et Reisling et Spiritus Syrah.

Amen!

Church spices give me a headache. Probably just allergic.

Something odd happened on night two of the 2004 Domaine du Closel Savennières Clos du Papillon. It developed a bit of a tobacco ash element that was completely reminiscent of '04 Burgs and Beaujolais for me.