Bordeaux Supérieur = A.O.C. Bordeaux Grand Cru?

This, in any event, is what the Syndicat des Bordeaux et Bordeaux Supérieur have just decided.

However, they now need approval from the INAO (whose initials have stayed the name, but now stand for Institut national de l'origine et de la qualité) before the name can be used.
I wonder if they will obtain this approval?
I'm sure there will be some fierce opposition...

Frankly, I'm not convinced it's such a good idea. How do you explain to a Chinaman (or someone in Hoboken, for that matter) that a grand cru in Saint-Julien and a grand cru Bordeaux are two very different animals?

Already, not one person in 100 knows the difference between a Saint Emilion grand cru and a Saint Emilion grand cru classé...

The Bx. and Bx. Sup. appellations account for over half of all production in the Gironde department.
It's true that, due to a variety of reasons, the wines aren't selling well, and the movers and shakers suffer from a certain amount of dross and a lacklustre name.

But still...

Best regards,
Alex R.

Alex, this is completely daft. It will simply devalue the term "grand cru" and will spread confusion as you rightly point out.

Sales of Bordeaux and Bordeaux Supérieur will only improve where the quality does. I am sure that, say, Domaine de Courteillac, which sells a nice Saint-Émilion ringer for around €10, has no commercial problems.

Tim,

>>> Domaine de Courteillac, which sells a nice Saint-Émilion ringer for around €10, has no commercial problems.

I wish that were true on every market...

A) There are *thousands* of châteaux in the Bx. & Bx. Supérieur appellations. Even if one really stand outs, it's really hard to sell the wine for any more than (low) market price. Plus, it's a vicious cercle: you need a higher price to finance the lower yields and wood ageing...

B) The château system, invented by the bordelais, is double-edged. Let's say your Domaine de Courteillac is to die for at a ridiculously low price. Well, there's only so much of it. You can't really "build a brand".

Frustrating...

All the best,
Alex

I'll agree this is a terrible idea. Maybe some short term benefits to the poorer versions of Bordeaux Sup., but a bad idea for the appellation (and the region) in the long run. The analogy with the St Emilion GC vs GCC is spot on.

It's true that, due to a variety of reasons, the wines aren't selling well, and the movers and shakers suffer from a certain amount of dross and a lacklustre name.

In which case, they should lower their prices - I'd buy a heck of a lot more Bordeaux if you could actually get any for less than $10 (that market segment simply doesn't exist anymore). The St.-Emilion system is worse than useless - it's misleading. Even the most humble Bordeaux is allowed to put "Grand Vin de Bordeaux" on the label - perhaps they should consider utilizing that more prominently. Honestly, even if they did do this, it wouldn't necessarily fix the problem: what they need is volume, and that is only possible by appealing to the average consumer, who wouldn't know or even notice the difference. The segment it might actually impact is the moderately wine knowledgeable, i.e., those who know enough to realize "Grand Cru" is supposed to mean something, but not enough to realize that it doesn't mean the same thing as GCC - and when they taste such a "Bordeaux Grand Cru," and find it good but not great, that may tarnish in their mind the image of all Bordeaux Grand Cru. So it could end up driving people away from Bordeaux, especially if, with this new-found but false grandeur, they feel justified in raising their prices. Once again, if the wines aren't selling, it's because people don't feel they're worth the price.

Ryan,

>>>In which case, they should lower their prices

That's a "law of the jungle" reaction that I don't discard out of hand.
The problem is your use of the word "they".
We are talking about literally thousands of different estates, from the sublime to the ridiculous.

>>> I'd buy a heck of a lot more Bordeaux if you could actually get any for less than $10 (that market segment simply doesn't exist anymore).

You can certainly buy good Bordeaux here for that price, but then the $ has gone to hell in a handbasket over the past few years.

>>>The St.-Emilion system is worse than useless - it's misleading.

I couldn't agree more with you.

>>>Even the most humble Bordeaux is allowed to put "Grand Vin de Bordeaux" on the label - perhaps they should consider utilizing that more prominently.

Only wines from Bordeaux Supérieur on up can - i.e. an AOC Bordeaux cannot.

>>>and when they taste such a "Bordeaux Grand Cru," and find it good but not great, that may tarnish in their mind the image of all Bordeaux Grand Cru.

Exactly.
The Syndicat's decision has yet to be approved. And there will be a lot of resistence for the reason you cite.

>>>So it could end up driving people away from Bordeaux, especially if, with this new-found but false grandeur, they feel justified in raising their prices.Once again, if the wines aren't selling, it's because people don't feel they're worth the price.

It's not quite a simple as that... It's more of a marketing problem than a price quality problem (although I do not contest that that is an issue as well for some wines). There are simpmly so many châteaux, most of them with a small production, that it is impossible to promote any of them in, let's say, a country as big as the US.

Best regards,
Alex R.

Tim,

>>> Domaine de Courteillac, which sells a nice Saint-Émilion ringer for around €10, has no commercial problems.

I wish that were true on every market...

A) There are *thousands* of châteaux in the Bx. & Bx. Supérieur appellations. Even if one really stand outs, it's really hard to sell the wine for any more than (low) market price. Plus, it's a vicious cercle: you need a higher price to finance the lower yields and wood ageing...

B) The château system, invented by the bordelais, is double-edged. Let's say your Domaine de Courteillac is to die for at a ridiculously low price. Well, there's only so much of it. You can't really "build a brand".

Frustrating...

All the best,
Alex

That puts the commercial problem of Bordeaux and Bordeaux Supérieur in a nutshell.

The proliferation of minor châteaux is a nightmare for the consumer and I, like many, have got tired of trying the lucky dip. Domaine de Courteillac is deserving and also lucky in that they are mentioned in the Bettane/Desseauve guide and have a very good and faithful distributor in Belgium. There may be many others just as deserving but not so lucky.

The only viable solution, IMHO, is the creation of decent quality brands for 90% of the production of these appellations. However, that would mean diluting the individualism for which French vignerons pride themselves.

It is quite beyond me how intelligent people can imagine that the laughable appellation name Bordeaux Grand Cru is going to help the situation.

[David M. Bueker]

Imagine the power if a brand like Mouton Cadet was actually good.

Hi Alex,
So Alex does this mean that AOC Bordeaux Grand Cru Class instead of just consisting of the first Five Growths, will now include the AOC Cru Bourgeois Exceptionel (which as of 2003 had 9 Chateaux) will now be called 6th Growths (or Sixieme Cru) and the AOC Cru Bourgeois Superieurs (which as of 2003 had 87 Chateaux) will now be called 7th Growths (or Septieme Cru)?

Salute