WTN: 2001 Emidio Pepe Trebbiano D'Abruzzo

[David M. Bueker]

A couple of data points I happen to know from my tasting group:

1970 Pichon Lalande in magnum: $12.50 on release.

1970 Petrus in 750ml: $27 on release

All values would have to be adjusted for inflation. If we use a simple rule of thumb of doubling every 10 years, those prices would have to be multiplied by 16 to get today's dollars. Still, much less $ than today, perhaps butressing Agostino's point that many excellent wines have escalated beyond the reach of the average joe.

David: Believe me, I know all about trying to live on less than $91k/yr. in areas where a 2 bedroom rents for more than $1400/mo. And there are a lot of us doing just that. Not wanting to contribute too much to thread drift, but there has been a polarization of income in the US with somewhat of a 'hollowing out' of the working/lower middle class. I don't think this is a good thing.

Despite inflation, there is something to the idea that good wines have become absurdly expensive upon release. I think it has something to do with wine (at least in the US) moving from a fringe pursuit to something one needs to collect in order to show that you have arrived. I developed a taste for Burgundy in grad school in the early '80s - something I can't imagine happening today. My first 'wow' bottle was a '81 (yeah, crappy year) Chambertin from Armand Rousseau which I paid less than $20 for. I also used to enjoy the $15 bottles of Faurie Hermitage and $14 bottles of Caymus CS. Adjusted for inflation (I just saw the Faurie for almost $200) I think the current prices are way out of line. I only drink this stuff on occasion, if at all, these days.

And the better German wines used to sit there with absurdly low price tags, collecting dust. Contrast that to a few years back, when I'm standing in Astor wines in NYC and am almost pushed out of the way by a list wielding 20-something with a cart full of German wines, reaching in before I could get my hands on his prize. Some critic or other had just declared 2001 a must have vintage!

[David M. Bueker]

All values would have to be adjusted for inflation. If we use a simple rule of thumb of doubling every 10 years, those prices would have to be multiplied by 16 to get today's dollars. Still, much less $ than today, perhaps butressing Agostino's point that many excellent wines have escalated beyond the reach of the average joe.

True, but in 1972 or 1973 (when those wines were at the listed prices) there were far fewer choices for truly world class wines. Forgetting the whole issue of old world/old school style versus "modern" wines there are a great many more choices for good wine now than there were back then.

it would be interesting to make up a chart showing, since around the time of the industrial revolution, the price of an icon like Chateau Margaux as a multiple of the minimum wage (or some proxy) of Britain, France or the US. Then we might see more objectively how its affordability (or not) varied over time to whoever we define as the average joe.

That would be interesting indeed. I am sure some historian or economist somewhere must have done it.

In an area where a 2 bedroom apartment costs $1400/month, $91K is tough to get by on for a family, much less afford some nice wine.

I must be out of touch because 2 bedrooms for $1400 a month sounds dirt cheap! Here in Cambridge that is the price level for a studio or a small rundown one bedroom.

Although I've obviously lived in the few skewed expensive cities..

Anyway, I think the logic is reaching a sort of consensus.

....

There are artisinal, organic producers who charge $15/bottle and those that charge $100 for a bottle of Trebbiano. Why?

Because the $15 and the $100 bottle don't come from the same plots of land and don't require the same investments.......

Precisely why I'm puzzled about the prices producers like Pepe can ask - we are talking about Abruzzo! Don't tell me that there is a single vineyard in that part of Italy that would cost as much as even the most humble site in Burgundy. Besides, unlike those in the new world, many old world producers come into their land via inheritance. It might be more understandable if Pepe were some software mogul paying outrageous money for acerage in Napa.

Precisely why I'm puzzled about the prices producers like Pepe can ask - we are talking about Abruzzo! Don't tell me that there is a single vineyard in that part of Italy that would cost even as much as even the most humble site in Burgundy. Besides, unlike those in the new world, many old world producers come into their land via inheritance. It might be more understandable if Pepe were some software mogul paying outrageous money for acerage in Napa.

I don't know enough about Pepe or the economy of Abruzzo to argue this point, although I will say that $15 seems kind of cheap for the quality they offer.

I was speaking more generally because I agree that not every $100 bottle is 'worth' the price but I don't think that all wines are created equal so I have no problem with higher prices for special wines. Of course in the end it is tough to get a solid definition of 'worth' because that varies for every person and depends on what individuals are willing to pay.

[David M. Bueker]

Besides, unlike those in the new world, many old world producers come into their land via inheritance.

As do the producers of many expensive Burgundies.

Besides, unlike those in the new world, many old world producers come into their land via inheritance.

As do the producers of many expensive Burgundies.

Precisely. There are only a few ha. of say Chambertin so it's track record and scarcity will drive up the sellng price. Maybe 10 years ago the vineyard being used for Pepe's wines was being used to produce $2.99/liter vino d' tavola - what do we know?

I don't have the resources, but it would be interesting to make up a chart showing, since around the time of the industrial revolution, the price of an icon like Chateau Margaux as a multiple of the minimum wage (or some proxy) of Britain, France or the US. Then we might see more objectively how its affordability (or not) varied over time to whoever we define as the average joe. Perhaps it was already way out of reach in 1855, and remained so at all times since. Or perhaps it oscilated in and out of reach, as this or that social trend, or structural change in the distribution of income, took hold (not to mention the two world wars).

It would indeed be interesting; but instead of against minimum wage to track top wine prices against the average income of professional and managerial classes, e.g. lawyers, doctors, accountants, military officers, university teachers, top civl service grades, company executives, etc.

Anecdotally, I have no doubt from observation during my own lifetime and looking further back, that the likes of Château Margaux were affordable by the dozen to reasonably successful professionals through the 50s and 60s. The local wine merchant in the prosperous Liverpool suburb where I was brought up used to stock these wines and, as a student, I bought 3 bottles of Château Latour 1945 for £2.25 each (then worth about $6.30); I guess the average annual income of the more prosperous of that suburb's households would then have been around £5000.

Going back into the 19th and early 20th centuries, George Saintsbury who wrote Notes on a Cellar book, had the Bordeaux 1ers crus and their Burgundian equivalents as standard fare. Here is a resumé of his career, mainly in teaching - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Saintsbury . He finished it as Regius professor of Rhetoric at Edinburgh; his modern equivalents may well be wine lovers but probably limit their ambitions to the Loire and Rhône valleys and the like.

The market now for fine wine is vastly wider than it was through to the 60s. Pop and sports stars hunting trophies, banking stars with 7 figure bonuses, CEOs spending golden parachutes and wealthy Japanese and Chinese now drive the demand for top wines. (Wealthy Russians were out of market in the 50s and 60s but were very present in most of George Saintsbury's lifetime.)

I don't have the resources, but it would be interesting to make up a chart showing, since around the time of the industrial revolution, the price of an icon like Chateau Margaux as a multiple of the minimum wage (or some proxy) of Britain, France or the US. Then we might see more objectively how its affordability (or not) varied over time to whoever we define as the average joe. Perhaps it was already way out of reach in 1855, and remained so at all times since. Or perhaps it oscilated in and out of reach, as this or that social trend, or structural change in the distribution of income, took hold (not to mention the two world wars).

It would indeed be interesting; but instead of against minimum wage to track top wine prices against the average income of professional and managerial classes, e.g. lawyers, doctors, accountants, military officers, university teachers, top civl service grades, company executives, etc.

Tim, Exactly, and this echoes Joe's point about the hollowing of the true middle class (which, unfortunately for David, is in-line with the figures Oswaldo found). This is the same reason in the growth of executives and the uber-wealthy over the last, say, 20-30 years (but especially from the 1990's on) and the reason CEO pay used to be a ratio of something like 40x the average pay of a company employee to the current levels of 200-300x.

[David M. Bueker]

the hollowing of the true middle class (which, unfortunately for David, is in-line with the figures Oswaldo found)

Middle class is about more than statisticians' income tables. Forgetting the cost of wine for a moment, salaries have not risen much for most folks (I know mine has not) over the last several years. Even in good times like 2004-2007 companies were telling employees to tighten their belts because it was so hard to meet the expectations of "the street."

the hollowing of the true middle class (which, unfortunately for David, is in-line with the figures Oswaldo found)

Middle class is about more than statisticians' income tables. Forgetting the cost of wine for a moment, salaries have not risen much for most folks (I know mine has not) over the last several years. Even in good times like 2004-2007 companies were telling employees to tighten their belts because it was so hard to meet the expectations of "the street."

Well, we're really getting away from wine here, but I love economics. The slowing pace of wages is, in a way, part and parcel of the top echelon workers gaining disproportionately vis-a-vis the lower rung ones. Gains are not going to the average working stiff.

And don't forget that expectations change. Look at 'average' house sizes of the post-war year building boom (the height of the middle middle class) and contrast that with what the children of those people now expect: of the top of my head, I think the average size was something like 1200 sq feet and now is something closer to 1800 sq feet. So what people EXPECT their money to purchase has expanded too.

Mark, do you have one? What year is it?

Trebbiano gets a lot of flak for being neutral. I think a lot of grapes get a specific reputation over the years because they've been used to make gallons of light quaffer wines (which in Italy is often the case) then a conscientious producer comes along and turns the reputation on its head. I had an aged Lugana, I think from Ca' dei Frati, which is 100% Trebbiano made in the Lago di Garda area and it was quite delicious. So here's two cases of Trebbiano that ages well!
The Pepe Trebbiano I had could kind of be described as neutral, but it was neutral in a good way, like a quiet friend who knows how to listen. It was an interesting wine without being overbearing. I get the same kind of Zen quality from the Nebbiolos of Ar.Pe.Pe. in Valtellina.

Agostino,

I think you'll find that Trebbiano di Lugana is the same as Trebbiano di Soave, which is in fact Verdicchio. Which explains why it can be so tasty.

Trebbiano from the Abruzzo is difficult to decypher. As I understand it Trebbiano d'Abruzzo as a variety is the same as Bombino Bianco, ie a different variety entirely from Trebbiano Toscano, but either kind of Trebbiano would show as DOC Trebbiano d'Abruzzo on the label...I have no idea which one Pepe uses.

I’ll have to agree with Oliver. Trebbiano (of some kind) has been cultivated since ancient times. Pliny the Elder (1st century Historian and Naturalist) knew it as “Trebulanus”. I think the modern-day spelling showed up in the 1620’s or 1650’s.

Salute

Besides, unlike those in the new world, many old world producers come into their land via inheritance.

As do the producers of many expensive Burgundies.

Precisely. There are only a few ha. of say Chambertin so it's track record and scarcity will drive up the sellng price. Maybe 10 years ago the vineyard being used for Pepe's wines was being used to produce $2.99/liter vino d' tavola - what do we know?

I'm almost certain Pepe is estate-bottled.

I am not sure how high their prices are at the winery, sometimes high prices in the US are the result of gouging by importers. I will say that the good bottles of Pepe I've had have been outstanding.

sometimes high prices in the US are the result of gouging by importers..

You never can trust those crazy importers!

I remember a recent thread elsewhere from someone who had just come back from visiting Pepe and the prices were a bit cheaper at the winery. But that is to be expected and I forget the details.

A few year ago I noticed that the prices of Boxler wines in Alsace were about 1/3 of the Chadderdon imported version in the US. I certainly would drink more Boxler if the pricing were better!

A few year ago I noticed that the prices of Boxler wines in Alsace were about 1/3 of the Chadderdon imported version in the US.

I think cellar door vs. US retail is usually 1/3. Although a lot of other variables come into play. But that ratio strikes me as more or less normal.