Boring Wines

I find that some types of wines tend to be more boring than others. I am easily bored by wines that tend to blur together, that have similar strong characteristics that overpower the subtleties that might otherwise offer variety and differentiation.

I'll give a few examples of wines that I find easily boring and some that I rarely find boring.

Australian reds bore me more and more. Since around 2002 they have taken on a sameness - intense fruit early on with a mint overlay, followed by early senility, and never any complexity at all (I do like Western Australian wines much more)

Pinotage bores me - the ones I like the best are the least varietally characteristic, while the ones that show most varietal character are the most tedious.

Californian Cabernet can tend toward boredom, depending on how one dimensional they are. Or rather, like many Australian wines, they offer tons of sweet primary fruit and big hairy tannins, and then they collapse into oblivion without passing through anything resembling an interesting stage with complexity or subtlety.

Californian chardonnays that rely primarily on oak for character are the epitomy of boredom.

Carmenere, which can be OK, but for the most part is just blah.

Not at all boring - Italian wines, least boring the futher away from international style they are. German Rieslings except the Black Tower variety. Most Bordeaux, even modestly priced ones that offer lost of flavour interest for the dollar.

What wines offer you enough flavour interest to consistently hold your attention and which ones tend to bore you, more often than not?

Don't disagree with your boring list.

But your not-boring list has a lot of problems, Bill.

There's an awful lot of tedious, dull, boring, humdrum, vague Italian wines.

Black Tower isn't Riesling. (Although I'll agree that there's boring Riesling out there, and some of it comes from Germany.

And your general blanket approval of Bordeaux is---sorry---questionable to the extreme. There's an incredible amount of vacuous Bordeaux out there.

But that's the trouble when you're being broadly generic, isn't it?

But you missed an easy one; surprised it wasn't included in your list:

Pinot Gris/Pinot Grigio---far more than Sturgeon would allow is featureless crap, dull, boring, insipid and tedious. Sure there's a few exceptional wines in Northern Italy---well, carefully select brands in carefully select places there---and few in Alsace, but by and large, most PG is just plain blah.

But this is too easy, isn't it? I could do much the same thing with just about any category or variety, if I'm looking for the mediocre and below-average (or even the average, really.)

Pinotage bores me - the ones I like the best are the least varietally characteristic, while the ones that show most varietal character are the most tedious.

Fighting talk there, Bill. Perhaps ones you like best are in fact varietally correct?

I find it sad that a wine lover can have given up on such a swath of wines. Maybe its time you took a break? Two months without wine should recharge your enthusiasm.

[David M. Bueker]

I might turn the table a little bit & say that it's not that I find certain wines boring (although I do find Sauvignon Blanc hideous), but rather that the search for the good examples which I know are out there requires more effort/money than I am willing to give.

I am not a big follower of reviews (other than David Schildknecht's, and his are generally so late in the flow that I can only use them for hindsight), so areas like Spain, Australia & even Italy are very tough for me since I don't have a ton of familiarity with the (vast numbers of) producers and at least for Spain/Australia, the leading reviewers are focused on big, hefty, dark wines that do not appeal all that much to my palate. I know there is other stuff out there, but I'm not interested in kissing frogs.

Hoke - there are always poor examples of just about any varietal you care to name, but that doesn't mean that the rest can't offer a nice range of experience. I am discriminating between the wines with lots of variety/interest and those with little range and scope.

Mind you, having narrow scope doesn't prevent one from enjoying them. One I failed to mention could easily be considered by some to be one dimensional and boring - Zinfandel, but that doesn't stop me from being a long time fan.

Peter - I love Cape wines and have been involved with them for decades, both in the teaching/society end and as a consumer. I have tried many, many examples of Pinotage and my personal evaluation stands. You like them, I don't. Have to leave it at that.

David - sauv blanc is an interesting one, and like the pinot gris Hoke mentioned, you have to wade through a sea of crap to find anything interesting (assuming that you find any SB interesting). I thought about mentioning chenin blanc as that would have some resonance at least to American consumers, who for the most part suffer through a lot of pretty boring soft insipid wine made from that grape, but I couldn't bring myself to pronounce such a slur against some of my favourite Loire wines!

You and I could get into a discussion of which German varietals are worthy and which less worthy, but that could be a long conversation...

What wines offer you enough flavour interest to consistently hold your attention and which ones tend to bore you, more often than not?

This is probably a stupid question, Bill. Since I don't have a clue, it is obviously a gap in my understanding. Why do people drink boring wine at all, more than once by accident, given that life is relatively short and livers don't all have nine lives?

Is there utility in contrast? Like, for example, I could spend some time talking to a moron to make my wife seem more clever.

I find Sauvignon Blanc in its better forms tasty but boring, otherwise I just dislike it.

Chardonnay is the real 'boring' grape for me - I've had a couple of BdB Champagnes and some gorgeous Burgs that were knockouts, but those have been few exceptions and the rest have just been dull.

Bordeaux's a strange one. I've had very little young Bordeaux that really thrilled me and each time I drink one I feel like there's something else (any other grape or a young New World Cab) I'd much rather drink. But every time I drink an older bottle (say at least with 15 years on it) my mind goes 'wow, I need to find more of these'.

Why do people drink boring wine at all, more than once by accident, given that life is relatively short and livers don't all have nine lives?

You should start another thread on that as it is a different question.
The answer will be different for TGU (The Great Unwashed) than it will for we wine geeks. They aren't after oenological bliss, they are usually after anything cheap that slides down fairly easily and has lots of alcohol. Which would account for the popularity of Yellow Tail, Little Penguin, and all the rest of that ilk.

Salil: I'm pretty much in your camp with Bordeaux. You explained it well.

The thing I'm puzzling over is that you and Bueker are both wishy-washy to negative on SB. From where I stand, that's a head scratcher, because it's not the acid (Riesling heads that you are) and its not the aromatics (you seem to like other aromatics just fine). You just don't seem to like SB (especially Bueker).

Of course my natural SB-loving egocentrism causes me to rear back and say "You guys just haven't had the right SB, that's all. But I know that both you guys are fairly open-minded and exploratory drinkers and you give things fair trials...so perhaps that's not it.

Which leaves me puzzled? Because I see---and I know I may be going off the glass half full principle here---the wealth of good SB out there, rather than the huge amounts of plonk...which said plonk is indeed dull and boring, I'll freely admit.

So let me posit a check list and see how we do on it. Have you guys tried:

Good brands of Trentino-Alto Adige SB? (Sanct Valentin at base; several others around)

Good Friuli SB? (Again, several around to choose from; not exactly plentiful on the ground, but they're out there). SOme of those, for me, were truly revelatory.

Good Austrian SB? They can be amazing...teeth-strippers at times, but amazing.

Sancerre? I'm assuming you've worked through some of those.

That leaves a handful of good NZ Southern Island, a smaller handful of CA. and we'll leave Bordeaux out of the mix for now because even I'm iffy on that (with exceptionally rare selections which I generally can't afford or justify drinking anyway, so feh).

The thing I'm puzzling over is that you and Bueker are both wishy-washy to negative on SB. From where I stand, that's a head scratcher, because it's not the acid (Riesling heads that you are) and its not the aromatics (you seem to like other aromatics just fine). You just don't seem to like SB (especially Bueker).

Of course my natural SB-loving egocentrism causes me to rear back and say "You guys just haven't had the right SB, that's all. But I know that both you guys are fairly open-minded and exploratory drinkers and you give things fair trials...so perhaps that's not it.

Hoke,
There are a handful of Sauvignon Blancs I do like and a couple I've really enjoyed. I'll still drink some of the well made but boring versions every now and then like Cloudy Bay or Delta Vineyard from NZ, and there are a handful of producers (Lawson's Dry Hills, who do some barrel aging/fermentations and Dry Stack Vineyard where the fruit has an unbelievable purity and elegance) that I'd happily buy and drink much more of if I could find them.
For me those are in a minority of SB producers from what I've tasted - the remainder either show flavours I find personally offputting (strong green pepper or really tart unripe fruit with nothing else going on in the wine to keep me interested) or more frustratingly there's a sense of generic sameness to many of the rest - those aren't plonk, they're certainly drinkable and well made but I just can't sit down with a glass or two on a regular basis. Although I haven't explored a lot more beyond the standard big producing regions (and a few from South Africa). No checks against the Italian ones you listed, and certainly no experience with the Austrians. The prices for the Austrians in particular are deal breakers - I'd certainly welcome the chance to try an SB by FX Pichler or Nigl, but given the prices they run at I don't plan on buying one to experiment with (heck I have second thoughts when buying a GV or Riesling at some of those prices, and those are wines I have a real love for).
My other issue with SB is what I find to be the lack of versatility and utility for me. I can open a Riesling with damn near anything at the dinner table (fwiw, I tend to cook a lot of Asian-influenced food with a lot of vegetables and/or chicken, use some very flavourful spices regularly, don't eat seafood and only eat pork or red meats occasionally). Most of the dishes I cook aren't ones I'd enjoy a SB with - they're the sort of dishes I can stand a richer Gruner or any kind of Riesling or Chenin (either a dry, rich one or a lighter, sweet one) up to and the combination works great... so I just don't have much use for SB personally. That said if I could buy a bottle of Lawson's Dry Hills or Dry Stack Vyd Rosemary's Block off the shelf at a decent price, I'd certainly buy and drink more SB!

(Also do note that I'm a big fan of Semillon, and have become a little bitter about the fact that there's a lot of potentially awesome Semillon being made a lot more boring and generic by the SB blending, particularly for the "SSB" blends down under. )

My other issue with SB is what I find to be the lack of versatility and utility for me. I can open a Riesling with damn near anything at the dinner table (fwiw, I tend to cook a lot of Asian-influenced food with a lot of vegetables and/or chicken, use some very flavourful spices regularly...

I don't know about this. I'm not a huge Sauvignon blanc fan but I always thought one of its greatest features is that it is so food friendly. Good sauvignon blanc from Sancerre, Touraine, Quincy, and Reuilly (the main areas I look for the grape) is fresh, direct, and mineral, much like the riesling qbas and kabinetts that you are pairing with this food. One slight advantage for the riesling may be the sweetness/residual sugar, but you can find that in a few sauvignon blancs as well. More importantly, riesling has more delicate flavors, which I feel can sometimes be compromised by food, whereas sauvignon blanc is a little broader and therefore seems to be a great mealtime companion.

I thought you might have some objections to the pyrazines, but if you like Bordeaux and cabernet wines, then that can't be it. (Unless you only drink the super ripe cabernet wines).

My main beef with sauvignon blanc is that it doesn't get enough complexity for me, so when I want something interesting I go for riesling, gruner or chenin blanc and if I want something simpler I go for Muscadet. And sauvignon blanc just sort of falls by the wayside. But I would never say I hate it.

It's all about a person's personal taste and it's not unique to wine. I think there are probably 3 main classes.

1. Stuff you love... It's your "thang." You love it and therefore it's never boring.

2. Stuff you hate ... It just definitely makes you cringe. Not boring but you avoid it when possible.

3. Everything else... Stuff that you don't really care about one way or the other. That's the boring stuff.

Almost everything can probably be put in one of those classes and where you put anything is just a matter of your personal taste.

Glenn

I still posit that some Australian Cabernet Sauvignon (and even one expensive Merlot) are far from boring. With Shiraz I find it a little harder to distinguish between the boring and drink young ones and the ones with a richness, complexity and aging potential. To some extent it follows an expense curve where the more interesting and complex ones are too costly for my budget when Shiraz/Syrah isn't my first or second red wine variety choice. But I'm not ready to write off all Australian reds as boring--I just don't purchase as many as I did a few years ago.

For the most part Pinot Grigio/Pinot Gris bores me but there are the exceptions to that rule. Likewise, I am finding a new appreciation for Gruner Veltliner.

I find a lot of Bordeaux boring but that relates to my not having many classified or mature Bordeaux in my collection. I can really enjoy something like a Leoville Poyferre or Leoville Barton or some fifth growths. Recently a 2002 Haut Batailley, Pauillac impressed. But when it comes to unclassified Bordeaux wines, most of them disappoint me.

Ones I generally don't find boring--Beaujolais, red and white Burgundies, domestic Pinot Noirs, Riesling, Zinfandels, and, yes, Sauvignon Blanc (as long as it sees no oak.)

But I'm not ready to write off all Australian reds as boring--I just don't purchase as many as I did a few years ago.

That is about where I am at. Palate ennui hits me harder with Shiraz than Cabs, and I tend to buy mostly Western Oz cabs these days.

There are still lots of interesting wines being made in Oz, we just don't often get them over here. I'd list semillons, and rieslings among them. Pinot noir tends to be outright bizarre, zinfandel pretty much as expected, cab franc...odd, and thank God I haven't come across an Aussie Nebbiolo so far!

Cheap Australian Shiraz, the majority of Argentinian Malbec, and almost all Chardonnel.

I think it can be all too easy to run up against a poor selection of wines from a region/grape - and to tar the whole genre with boring - but to pick up on an earlier comment, one or two (or even 5-10) bad examples can seriously drain our interest when there's so much wine available.

There is variety in Aussie reds, though from the sound of it, US importers and certain wine critics have been focused on a stylistic subset, that seems at odds with the historical cellaring stars championed by Aussies with 15-40 years experience. Maybe a modest wine like Wynns Black Label Cabernet Sauvignon might offer more interest - even better if it has 10+ years age on it.

In addition, there is much experimentation going on, in locations, in winemaking techniques and in new grapes (actually mostly long-established grape varieties, that are being brought to Australia to see what they can get out of them).

The same argument could be made for pretty much all the 'boring' wines mentioned in this thread, even Pinot Grigio and maybe, just maybe, even the Muller-Thurgau of Black Tower fame (though I'm still very cautious about the idea of great Muller-Thurgau).

However there really isn't any great benefit in going on a quest to taste every Muller-Thurgau wine to try and disprove one's initial impressions. By all means have a taste of one at a large tasting, or a winery tasting, but only as long as that doesn't stop you tasting something that really appeals.

Yes there are oceans of boring wine out there, but the boringness is spread pretty widely IMO.

regards

Ian

I have liked the Wynn's Black Label Cabernet Sauvignon from Coonawarra and also the more expensive John Riddoch (although the last John Riddoch I had tasted too "sweet" to me.)

Why do people drink boring wine at all, more than once by accident, given that life is relatively short and livers don't all have nine lives?

You should start another thread on that as it is a different question.

I thought you guys were drinking the wines you were complaining about? I'm not being facetious, just probably dense.

Why do people drink boring wine at all, more than once by accident, given that life is relatively short and livers don't all have nine lives?

You should start another thread on that as it is a different question.

I thought you guys were drinking the wines you were complaining about? I'm not being facetious, just probably dense.

My impression was that people are getting exposed to boring wines at public events, parties, restaurants with limited lists, etc where one can't control the wine options. At least that's where I find most of my boring wines. Before I switch to drinking something else.

Over analyzing equals boring wines. Not every wine is a 90+ pointer so a positive attitude looking at the attributes that the wine displays and enjoying those attributes singularly will bring some pleasure. My wife refuses to analyze wines or offer tasting notes. She enjoys the simple "pleasure" of the wine and responds "Fruity" if she likes it, and open another bottle if she doesn't. I think a lot of us have lost our "child" taste buds.

Drew

I mainly agree with your list, Bill, but I'd add the Southern Rhone to the 'non-boring' list. It has it's share of boring wines, as every wine region has, but it always amazes me how good a CdR-V can be for the price and the amount made.

Barossa and Mclaren Vale cabernets are almost all boring to me, even the top examples. No varietal characteristics at all.Coonawarra and WA are far less likely to be over-ripe, sweet examples of Oz cab.

Actually, one could argue that 80-90% of all wines made from every region are quaffing type wines, and so are therefore usually boring. Does any region on Earth really differ?

I'd add BC and ON in Canada to the list of boring regions - maybe the most boring anywhere!

I have liked the Wynn's Black Label Cabernet Sauvignon from Coonawarra and also the more expensive John Riddoch (although the last John Riddoch I had tasted too "sweet" to me.)

I'm with you, Coonawarra produces some great wines. I love Black Label (the 06 is great, and I'm delighted by their shift to screwcaps), John Riddoch is a beauty when I am able to find it (although it really does need age) and I like Majella and St. Hugo a lot too.

John, agree that Barossa Valley & McLaren Vale produce a lot of similar wines... the exceptions for me are the wines so goopy and overextracted they can make even the standard hedonistic, opulent and sexy inky-purple ooze-monsters from there look balanced, and the old vine Mourvedres from there (which somehow still retain some structure and the grape character in that heat). Most of my $ when buying Aussies just goes to any regions other than those two areas. Although when talking about Cabs, there's a lot more in Aus beyond Coonawarra and WA.
Seppelt, De Bortoli and Mt. Langi Ghiran do some really impressive ones in Victoria, and in the cooler parts of SA (Eden/Clare Valley), Henschke and Wendouree make some stunners.

Let's add on here...

While I could probably find something of interest from anywhere given enough time and money from a region/area/type that I consider 'boring', some wines really call out for the smelling salts:

Chardonnay but not only from California. There are tons of this innocuously made throughout the world.

Eric Solomon's Spain - it's funny how one importer can be so tied to boring wines...(oops, forgot about the DeGrazia Piedmont lineup!), but he did it in Spain for me. I know there are many old vines and young vinerons there, but it comes out soupy, thick, and oaky under his tutelage.

Rosso Conero/Rosso Piceno - in general, I love Italian wines, but this area makes many wines distinguised by their blandness. Also not too fond of the Veneto for wines.

The Sud (of France) - using the typical combination of grenache/syrah/mourvedre, these wines can have a sameness in the hands of those who produce for quantity over quality. But this is the same all over, isn't it?

Alligote & Passatoutgrains - never been thrilled by either of these 2nd-class Burgundians.

French Hybrids in the US of A - Although some can coax out some real dimension, most mom & pop wineries do not.

Lagrien, Blaufrankish, Zweigelt, etc. - yeah, sure they are food friendly, but who eats goulash every night? To my palate, they tend to be simple reds, full of plump fruit that go down like soda pop. Too flat to be lively, and too heavy to be entertaining...pass.

Australia - too easy! And too many wines made 'for export' that followed a formula. I know they are good Aussie wines out there, because I've had some, but I've been burnt enough to know to stay away.

California in general - Many in their categories are too similar, but the differences make them want to seek them out. CA is like Burgundy: Producer, producer, producer!!!

Swiss wines - Maybe the acid crunchers love them, but from what I've tasted, they are disposable, perhaps best left for the fondue pot?

I'm sure there are more, but this is what comes to the top of my mind today.

[David M. Bueker]

Of course even someone's favorite wine can get boring if it's all they consume night after night. I actually got bored with Riesling once.