Pairing Question: North Carolina Barbecue

Does any wine actually go with a North Carolina-style barbecue (pulled pork) i.e., tangy mustard based sauce?

Oh yes......fond memories, not of training exercises at Camp Lejeune but of visits with friends in Asheville. Two ideal wine matches in my opinion - young, not overly alcoholic or too heavily oaked Zinfandel or Primitivo or simple but good quaffing Cotes du Rhone. Or, of course, brut Champagne or the brut Cava of your choice.

Best
Rogov

[David M. Bueker]

I agree with Rogov. In the case of eastern North Carolina barbecue (vinegar sauce) I would opt for iced tea.

David, Hi.....

You and I agree on many things but here we part company!!! I realize that iced tea is considered an accompanying beverage to meals in several of the United States, but for me iced tea has its place only on its own, perhaps with English cake (what you Americans call "pound cake" or "marble cake") while esconced comfortably on the 19th hole, at poolside or at tea time.

I know that Emily Post, Amy Vanderbilt and even Julia Childs disagree with me but in this case I am right and they, by heaven, are wrong!!!!!

Best and Smiling
Rogov

[David M. Bueker]

My dear Rogov,

There is no wine on this earth that goes with vinegar sauced barbecue, and in any event many of the places where such barbecue is sold are legally dry. Thus we are left with iced tea. Sad but true.

Aha, and My Dearest Bueker......

Consider Guiness stout, 'arf 'n 'arf with a nice lager.

Rogov (who is enjoying this play)

I'd opt for beer rather than wine to accompany barbecue. And I agree with Emily and Julia concerning the iced tea option if alcohol (and therefore beer) is verboten.

If it has to be wine, I like Daniel's choices. Chilled Cotes du Rhone seems ideal here.

-Paul W.

[David M. Bueker]

But Rogov - what part of "legally dry" did you not get.

Umm - isn't the mustard sauce a SOUTH Carolina specialty? North Carolina is a mixture of vinegar and Ketchup!
So a different taste profile - as the Northern is sweeter on the palate.

And indeed many top counties are dry - that's why we have moonshine!

But if iced tea doesn't count, then a lemony Chardonnay can work well (with SC) - preferably young - best match I had was a Ridge Santa Cruz Chardonnay - just released (then-2005) and also became the WS #2 wine of the year. I recall I paid less at the restaurant than it subsequently cost me retail - long gone of course!

This is all very interesting. I have never heard of vinegar based BBQ sauces so busy doing a google right now to learn more. Not sure this method would appeal to me (grin wink).
Hopefully this subject will be discussed over on Wine Focus..."Wine for Grilling".

But Rogov - what part of "legally dry" did you not get.

David, Hi.....

I kneel, not only in apology but in awe. In truth, I never realized that there were places on this planet where the consumption of alcohol was actually "illegal". How do such people manage (a) to survive and (b) remain civil and/or civilized?

Best (and no longer smiling but with jaw hanging open)
Rogov

P.S. Even in the strictest of Moslem nations the sale of alcohol is accepted to "foreigners". And even in those nations, with the prescription of a doctor (after all, a modicum of alcohol is necessary for survival and health) the wealthy enough can purchase anything from Glenmorangie to Chateau Palmer and, in between this and that, whatever beer, ale, aperitif or digestif that is "best for the health". A little known fact of life is that in many states ruled by Shariya (the Moslem holy laws) there are pharmacies with wine cellars of some renown.

P.P.S. Do such restrictions include wine vinegar?

P.P.P.S. And alcoholic apple juice?

Just for the record:
Mustard tinged sauce is South Carolina
Vinegar based (no tomato) sauce is Eastern North Carolina (God's food)
If tomato is added to the vinegar, it's Western North Carolina (the dividing line is in the Piedmont, with Lexington-style being "western")

I'm a believer in tea (if eating in, can't remember a serious BBQ place with a license) or beer (a lighter lager would do a LOT better than a stout). If I needed to drink wine, my instincts would be cava, rose, or maybe QbA Riesling.

Even in the strictest of Moslem nations the sale of alcohol is accepted to "foreigners".

{Oops - edited as I screwed up the post}

Surely you should mean the LEAST strict of Moslem Nations.

I was never ever able to find alcohol in Libya. One of the difficulties is that all foreign travellers have to be escorted by 'Tourist Police For Your Protection'. I did manage to slip the 'protection' twice and was continually approached by people wanting to know how I'd 'escaped'. But even then didn't manage to obtain anything other than Grape Juice or Apple Juice.

In all other moslem states I've been successful - the 'technique' is easily summed up by a conversation I had in [censored ] - I asked why the alcohol was available - the reponse "we sell it to the Jews"! Please note this comment is not intended to cause discussion or arouse any futher comments.

In many Moslem countries, the Foreign Embassies are typically the sources (as technically they are 'foreign soil'). In Libya, they burned down the Italian Embassy while I was there.

This is all very interesting. I have never heard of vinegar based BBQ sauces so busy doing a google right now to learn more. Not sure this method would appeal to me (grin wink).
Hopefully this subject will be discussed over on Wine Focus..."Wine for Grilling".

Bob, If you'll be at MoCool, Zingerman's Roadhouse features the vinegar-style BBQ - not that you'll have time to try it. And (in my opinion) it's not the greatest - but reasonably authentic.

Alan, Hi......

I've never visited Libya but next time you are there send me an email and I'll give you an address at which you will find the best of Bordeaux and the Rhone. I am actually quite familiar with the "dealer" who imports Bordeaux wines into Libya. A lovely guy. Also responsible for bringing Bordeaux wines into Iran, generally at night, over the mountain passes, the cases loaded onto the backs of willing donkeys. Alas, once those wines reach their destinations their prices are astronomical and the probability is that most have been cooked along the way.

Best

Rogov

Just for the record:
Mustard tinged sauce is South Carolina
Vinegar based (no tomato) sauce is Eastern North Carolina (God's food)
If tomato is added to the vinegar, it's Western North Carolina (the dividing line is in the Piedmont, with Lexington-style being "western")

I'm a believer in tea (if eating in, can't remember a serious BBQ place with a license) or beer (a lighter lager would do a LOT better than a stout). If I needed to drink wine, my instincts would be cava, rose, or maybe QbA Riesling.

Agree - I was really pointing out that mustard was SC - except, on the 'licensing' issue, MANY very serious BBQ places OUTSIDE the Carolina's are licensed (Memphis, Kansas City, Texas) - but they're very thin in the Carolinas. But there are some in Charleston (for example).

Alan, Hi......

I've never visited Libya but next time you are there send me an email and I'll give you an address at which you will find the best of Bordeaux and the Rhone. I am actually quite familiar with the "dealer" who imports Bordeaux wines into Libya. A lovely guy. Also responsible for bringing Bordeaux wines into Iran, generally at night, over the mountain passes, the cases loaded onto the backs of willing donkeys. Alas, once those wines reach their destinations their prices are astronomical and the probability is that most have been cooked along the way.

Best

Rogov

Daniel - you've just spoiled my record. I thought I was close to the 'best' at sussing out alcohol.
Iran was indeed particularly easy. Pakistan was tougher. And I even found it in the 'disputed' territories which are currently Taliban-influenced (prior to 2001). But the difficulty with Libya is that you can no longer enter without a 'guide' (legally) - my guide begged me (after the second escape) not to do it again, as he would lose his job! And on one of the two 'escapes' the 'Tourist Police For My Protection' saw me - he was stationed on the roof of the hotel - presumably protecting me from air-attacks.

I think Joe rubbed the roast with mustard then used the same dry rub he has put on the ribs, etc. previously. He's spritzing it with a cider vinegar based liquid.

We'll try the Cotes-Du Rhone and have beer as a backup.

Um....
Rose'?

Domaine Chamans Hegarty #1 2003 will stand up to any kind of charred beast, including a pulled-pork sandwich (do you want slaw on your sandwich or on the side?).

And remember the immortal words of Calvin Trillin: "The best part of anything is the brown crunchy part."

Regarding the "dry" issue: Here in Asheville it seems you can get beer or soft drinks at the better BBQ joints (The best is 12 Bones, down along the French Broad River; Little Pigs is a sentimental favorite, as is The Barbecue Inn.) There is also a little place that is not a BBQ joint, but that does have a pulled-pork sandwich on the menu, where if you like you can get a bottle of Barolo to wash it down. It's called "The Usual Suspects." They don't have a website, they don't take reservations, they don't advertise. They don't have to.

In the eastern part of NC it's seldom a question of dry counties, but the greatest BBQ joints tend to be shacks/cinderblocks/trailers that often lack amenities and don't want/qualify for a license. I usually visit for lunch, so alcohol isn't a priority.
The slaw in eastern NC is peppery/vinegary, another hard wine match.
Hush puppies are very wine friendly.
As noted, if I needed to drink wine, my choices would be rose or inexpensive sparkler.

Umm - isn't the mustard sauce a SOUTH Carolina specialty? North Carolina is a mixture of vinegar and Ketchup!

From what I've heard, you're right--the mustard-based barbecue sauce is South Carolina's specialty. North Carolina is divided: on the East Coast you have vinegar with pepper flakes mixed in--not a tomato in sight--whereas further West you get ketchup mixed in.

I am very partial to the Eastern North Carolina vinegar-and-pepper-flakes mixture with pulled pork barbecue. For ribs, I prefer Kansas City's sauces.

In all cases, I prefer beer to wine with barbecue. If it must be wine, I think chilled Cotes du Rhone or other light Syrah/Grenache-based wine would be best.

-Paul W.

Firefly.

David, Hi.....

You and I agree on many things but here we part company!!! I realize that iced tea is considered an accompanying beverage to meals in several of the United States, but for me iced tea has its place only on its own, perhaps with English cake (what you Americans call "pound cake" or "marble cake") while esconced comfortably on the 19th hole, at poolside or at tea time.

I know that Emily Post, Amy Vanderbilt and even Julia Childs disagree with me but in this case I am right and they, by heaven, are wrong!!!!!

Best and Smiling
Rogov

I spent my last afternoon in Paris in 1968 in the apartment of Maria Jolas. She had kind of taken me under her wing while I was in Paris. She told me she was going to make something special.

She made us iced tea.