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WTNs: two young Loire reds

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Oswaldo Costa

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WTNs: two young Loire reds

by Oswaldo Costa » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:48 am

2006 Damien Lorieux Bourgueil Graviers 12.38%
A new domaine with a young winemaker. Not organic or biodynamic. Spent 12 months in stainless steel. Even after decanting, very muted sour cherry aromas with a touch of acetone. Lively in the mouth, with good acidity, good weight, pleasant tannins and a light and very pleasant bitter finish. Flavors are straightforward dark cherry, simple but satisfying, especially with food. Must have been bottled without filtration, as I have never seen a young wine throw so much sediment in a decanter.

2006 Roger & Didier Raimbault Sancerre Rouge 13.0%
Very pale ruby. Nose also muted, with puzzlingly similar aromas of sour cherry and light acetone (made me wonder if it was the glasses). Lighter tannins than the cabernet franc, but good acidity, good astringency and lovely cherry flavors. Juicy and fruity, makes one understand why Sancerre rouge can be the darling of Parisian bistros. Bottled with light filtration.

Speculation corner: both wines were very pleasant, but aromatically muted. Since neither is organic or bio-dynamic, they probably use "standard" amounts of SO2, and I wonder if that explains their relative closure at this point.

Most wines of this age and kind that I've been drinking lately have little or no SO2 and have seemed quite open. On the other hand, most of the wines with SO2 that I've been drinking have also been open, but they have been older, so, presumably, have absorbed it.

So, I wonder if the toll that SO2 exacts for its good services is a period of muteness once the primary fruit fades and the SO2 has not yet been absorbed. It may have much to do with the (still poorly understood) phenomenon of closing down. Perhaps wines with low or no SO2 never close down, but the price is early expiry unless kept in ideal conditions. As with so much, to gain something, you have to lose something...
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
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Re: WTNs: two young Loire reds

by Rahsaan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:28 am

I think you need to do some more controlled tasting 'experiments' to get a more definitive answer on the SO2/closing issue, but it sounds interesting!

I agree that one reason the low SO2 Loire wines may never close down is because they don't have any tannins and fall apart by age 3. Although there are always exceptions (Breton's Nuits d'Ivresse comes to mind immediately).
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Re: WTNs: two young Loire reds

by Dale Williams » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:40 am

I'm a Breton fan, but don't buy the N d'I. My cellar is passive, with (mild and slow) temp swings. Usually tops out about 65-66 by next month. That seems fine with me for vast majority of wines, but I don't want to take a chance on a no/low sulphur wine over several years. So I stick to the Galichets, FdP, Senechal, etc.
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Re: WTNs: two young Loire reds

by mark meyer » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:33 pm

Dale Williams wrote:I'm a Breton fan, but don't buy the N d'I. My cellar is passive, with (mild and slow) temp swings. Usually tops out about 65-66 by next month. That seems fine with me for vast majority of wines, but I don't want to take a chance on a no/low sulphur wine over several years. So I stick to the Galichets, FdP, Senechal, etc.



Dale,

I tend to agree with you on these no sulpher wines-I had some of the no sulpher bojo producers that have been undrinkable are a few yrs in my passive cellar-but the mid 80's cab wines seem to still be going strong. It has been a cool summer but my passive cellar was 60 earlier this week.

mark
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Re: WTNs: two young Loire reds

by Rahsaan » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:11 am

mark meyer wrote:I had some of the no sulpher bojo producers that have been undrinkable are a few yrs in my passive cellar-but the mid 80's cab wines seem to still be going strong


Mid 80s cab wines from where? California?
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Re: WTNs: two young Loire reds

by mark meyer » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:04 am

Rahsaan wrote:
mark meyer wrote:I had some of the no sulpher bojo producers that have been undrinkable are a few yrs in my passive cellar-but the mid 80's cab wines seem to still be going strong


Mid 80s cab wines from where? California?



Rahsaan,

Sorry-Ca.-84-87 Ritchie Creek, 85-87 Montelena and 86 La Jota. A 87 Duckhorn on the 4th weekend was OTH. The 87 La Jota is variable.

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Re: WTNs: two young Loire reds

by Rahsaan » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:29 am

mark meyer wrote:
Rahsaan wrote:
mark meyer wrote:I had some of the no sulpher bojo producers that have been undrinkable are a few yrs in my passive cellar-but the mid 80's cab wines seem to still be going strong


Mid 80s cab wines from where? California?



Rahsaan,

Sorry-Ca.-84-87 Ritchie Creek, 85-87 Montelena and 86 La Jota. A 87 Duckhorn on the 4th weekend was OTH. The 87 La Jota is variable.

mark


Ok. I was just trying to figure out what you were saying. So your cellar is warm but these cabernets have survived well for over twenty years while the non-sulphur Beaujolais wines die after two years. Didn't know if you meant French or non-sulphur cabernet wines..
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Re: WTNs: two young Loire reds

by mark meyer » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:32 pm

Rahsaan,

Actually the non sulpher bojo's were 7-8 yrs old. And oddly enough the Lapierre bot in Chicago( not KL) seems to be aging very well whereas the KL Lapierre from 00 was undrinkable last yr.

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Re: WTNs: two young Loire reds

by Rahsaan » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:16 pm

mark meyer wrote:Actually the non sulpher bojo's were 7-8 yrs old. And oddly enough the Lapierre bot in Chicago( not KL) seems to be aging very well whereas the KL Lapierre from 00 was undrinkable last yr.

mark


Aha. Yes, well I know I hear reports about Lapierre and Foillard that are 7-10 years old but I have never thought to age them that long myself.

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