Unofficial German quality designations

I'm sure this has been discussed before - perhaps someone can point me to a link or provide a brief synopsis...

There are several means that German producers use to designate higher-quality bottlings - star system, gold capsules, long gold capsules (how long is long?), auction wines, sometimes just different AP numbers. Do these terms have different meanings? Does each one have any generally accepted meaning? Is it based on barrel selection? Or particular sections of the vineyard? Are the wines brought up differently? Or are the designations no more specific than adding "Reserve" to the name of a wine?

Are some producers using gold capsules on regular bottlings? I've seen wines with gold capsules that aren't promoted as "Goldkapsel." Does the color of the capsule mean anything in these cases? Here are some recent examples from the '07 vintage:
AJ Adam Dhroner Hofberger Riesling Kabinett
JJ Christoffel Urziger Wurzgarten Riesling Spatlese * (does the star mean anything different from the gold capsule?)
Alfred Merkelbach Urziger Wurzgarten Riesling Kabinett AP 14

Are these "special" bottlings and are there also "regular" bottlings of the "same" wine? How would one know? I presume there would be different AP numbers for each bottling, but is there anywhere one can look this up? AFAIK, the only way to tell what's what is to read the critics and wine boards. I can see where that can present an enjoyable challenge and even an element of intrigue. I was just wondering if there is a more organized way to follow this.

David or Salil (or Jean Fisch or a lot of others) know more than I. But with the exception of auction bottlings I don't think there is any standardization of what those things mean. For instance, some have both regular and GK versions of the same wine. Donnhoff uses gold capsules on some wines, but its not a designation (i.e.I don't think there are two bottlings of the OB Auslese -they all have GK). Some (most?) producers use stars as an indicator of how much botrytis is in a particular batch, but it seems to me I remember hearing of one producer who uses * or ** to indicate a particular plot every year (maybe someone else can confirm, think this was something I was told at an offline).
AP numbers are of course the simplest!

Thanks, Dale. I had a feeling that the meaning was not standardized.

I understand that AP numbers are quite specific for the particular bottling. But knowing the number doesn't tell the whole story of what's in the bottle unless you have someone to "translate" for you.

or provide a brief synopsis...

No such thing.

I'll try and sum up what I can, although I'm sure David Bueker or Jean Fisch would shed more light than I will (or is John Trombley around?). Many of these systems vary from producer to producer.

On APs: Some like Willi Schaefer and Merkelbach use different AP number designations to separate what looks like the same bottling. Generally AP numbers aren't that important in the larger scale, a lot of producers like Grunhaus, Schaefer, Prum and Merkelbach are good and consistent enough that you're not going to see a major qualitative difference from one bottling to the other. But in most cases they're generally irrelevant and only specify a particular fuder or sample lot that the wine was bottled from. Generally if there's a major qualitative or stylistic difference there are other designations besides the AP #. [Although keep in mind with Schaefer he does sell some of his wines; particularly Graacher Domprobst Spatlese under different fuder designations - but those are also marked on the back label, which make it clear whether you're buying Domprobst #9, 11, 12, etc. That said I haven't noticed much - if any - difference in quality.]

The star system varies from producer to producer - in most cases it's signifying a change in style, usually implying more richness/concentration. Most like Selbach-Oster, Hexamer and Molitor just use that to mark out slightly 'bigger'/higher end bottlings - the one-star on the Christoffel Spatlese just means that it's a slightly bigger/richer wine (closer to Auslese) than the unstarred Spatlese. Whether or not it's "better" depends on your preference - as a random note, I did find the Selbach-Oster unstarred Schlossberg Spatlese in 06 much more balanced and elegant than the starred one, which for me had too much botrytis and heaviness - stars don't always mean better.

The Goldkap designation is really painful and confusing - it doesn't apply to every wine with a gold coloured capsule (e.g. JJ Christoffel or Willi Schaefer, where the wines all have gold-coloured capsules). Some producers use it though like the star systems to designate richer/bigger bottlings, usually with more botrytis (Markus Molitor's one of them, although in his case I believe he also uses a gold label on the wines). And with others it doesn't mean anything on some bottlings - Donnhoff occasionanly bottles some Spatlese for auction under gold coloured capsules, but almost all his Auslese have gold capsules on them (even though they're not officially designated as GKAs) just implying that greater richness.

Auctions usually indicate a step up though in quality - those are smaller lots of wines bottled specially for the VDP auctions in Germany and they'll generally have a round sticker near the neck of the label that you don't find on other bottlings. Those are the only 'special' bottlings that are generally expected to be even better than the 'regular' bottings from a producer - the rest of the minutiae aren't that significant and worth worrying about (unless you're a serious geek and buy Riesling obsessively - not that it's a bad thing ).

Are these "special" bottlings and are there also "regular" bottlings of the "same" wine? How would one know? I presume there would be different AP numbers for each bottling, but is there anywhere one can look this up? AFAIK, the only way to tell what's what is to read the critics and wine boards. I can see where that can present an enjoyable challenge and even an element of intrigue. I was just wondering if there is a more organized way to follow this.

I haven't yet found a regular go-to guide to determine which bottlings are auctions and which aren't (usually I just look for the label on the neck).
David Schildknecht though is very good about listing the AP numbers for auction bottlings and regular bottlings of the same wine (e.g. Egon Muller's Scharzhofberg or Schaefer's Domprobst), and in certain producers' cases (Schaefer, Merkelbach) he usually lists the AP number of the wines as well in his reviews. Jean Fisch and David Rayer's Riesling Report newsletter also lists the AP numbers for most bottlings if I recall correctly.

Wow - I see that it does vary quite a bit from one producer to the next, and can be pretty complicated. I'm often unsure about how sweet or how rich a wine will come across - not always linear from Kab-Spat-Aus, and this adds yet another dimension. Sounds like it's best to take it on a case by case basis.

[David M. Bueker]

I saw David's question elsewhere & typed a first portion of a response. I will post it here verbatim, realizing that some of the info is redundant to above posts. We'll keep going from there:

There's a whole lot of questions in your post, so pardon me if I don't try to tackle them all at once. I'm sure others can chime in as well, and we'll have a good collection of responses and dialog.

Starting with capsules, some producers (e.g. J. J. Christoffel, Willi Schaefer, Merkelbach) use gold colored capsules for all of their wines. Others (e.g. J. J. Prum) use white (or some other non-gold color) capsules for their regular wines & gold capsules for their "special" bottlings. Most producers only have one style of gold capsule (the capsule itself) while Prum had gold capsules & long gold capsules to denote special and extra special so to speak.

Donnhoff uses gold capsules on many wines then also does auction bottlings which have gold capsules (but also the little auction I cannot stress enough that all of this is winery controlled, so one producers gold capsule "rules" mean nothing when looking at another producer's bottlings.

The one thing that is pretty consistent is that when producers put a gold capsule on a bottling it's because they feel the wine is different from their normal offering of that vineyard/pradikat.

Quickly on the subject of stars which are used by any number of producers: they are similar to gold capsules but again winery dependent. Christoffel's Urziger Wurzgarten Spatlese* used to be bottles as the Auslese with no stars. Because of all the Christoffel auslesen with stars (there's a bunch) people tended to look down on the "no star" auslese as somehow inferior. So they decided to sell it as a spatlese* to get over that issue. I wonder how that's working out. For what it's worth I have always liked and bought the no star auslese & it was a great value.

[David M. Bueker]

Salil - Willi Schaefer's different spatlese bottlings correspond to the AP numbers, not any particular fuder number (unless you are getting very different back labels than I am). There might be a coincidental use of the same fuders year after year & then a presentation of the wines to the tasting panel in that order (to keep the AP numbers in line), but I am not certain about that.

My mistake, they are AP numbers. Thanks for clarifying that.

Wow - I see that it does vary quite a bit from one producer to the next, and can be pretty complicated. I'm often unsure about how sweet or how rich a wine will come across - not always linear from Kab-Spat-Aus, and this adds yet another dimension. Sounds like it's best to take it on a case by case basis.

That's what makes it so fun!

On the sweet-rich thing, the pradikat usually give you a rough idea but if you really want the precise details you can always ask around and in particular this highlights the value of a good wine shop staff, IMO.

[David M. Bueker]

It is easy to understand the level of frustration that sometimes accopanies German Riesling. If we go back only as far as the mid 80s or maybe even 1990 many of the perception issues were minimal. A kabinett was a kabinett and a spatlese a spatlese rather than some beerenauslese minus botrytis in disguise. This mirrors the Alsacian issue where today's Gewurztraminer may be very sweet, especially compared to the same bottling 15 years ago.

It is easy to understand the level of frustration that sometimes accopanies German Riesling. If we go back only as far as the mid 80s or maybe even 1990 many of the perception issues were minimal. A kabinett was a kabinett and a spatlese a spatlese rather than some beerenauslese minus botrytis in disguise...

Ok, but even if you take out the overdone bombs that are truly freaks of nature for their categories, there should still be some 'interesting' (if slightly complicated) variation according to region, vineyard, producer, and vintage. I.E. there is not just one taste profile to expect from each of the pradikat.

[David M. Bueker]

Ok, but even if you take out the overdone bombs that are truly freaks of nature for their categories, there should still be some 'interesting' (if slightly complicated) variation according to region, vineyard, producer, and vintage. I.E. there is not just one taste profile to expect from each of the pradikat.

Perhaps true, but vintages like 2006 produced overdone bombs (as you call them) just about everywhere.

I'll confess to being a fair-weather German Riesling fan. The lack of consistent attention is no doubt a big part of my problem. I've been motivated to buy in "great" years (whatever that means). I bought a bunch of '90s and drank most of them too soon. Most were sweeter than I expected but I didn't "get" the whole Pradikat thing back then - I figured Auslese just meant "better" so that's what I bought. Surprise!... I ended up with a bunch of wines that were better for dessert than for a main course.

I had learned that lesson by the time the '01s came around. Everyone was going bananas over how great the wines were, so I gave it another go. Still had an occasional surprise with a few Spatlesen and even an occasional Kabinett that was sweeter than I expected. I don't mind the richness and sweetness per se. But I do like to know if a wine will be light and crisp vs. rich and slightly vs. overtly sweet before opening it. I also tried a few Trockens - predictably dry but sometimes a little RS can go well with dinner depending on the dish and prep.

I'm now dipping my toes back in with some of the '07s that are being touted locally. This time around I am relying on David Schildknecht's notes and comments here to guide my expectations. This is a great example of a description that tells me just what I want to know about richness, weight, and sweetness. Bravo!

Scents of mango and peach signal extreme ripeness for a Kabinett, and this Riesling’s texture is marvelously creamy and rich, almost doughy in consistency. Why then “Kabinett”? Well, for all of its caressing texture, this wine exhibits near weightlessness, at a mere 8% alcohol, as well as a transparency to spice and saline mineral nuances that will occupy your imagination even as you lick your lips. Nor does high residual sugar thwart or detract from this wine’s achievement of delicacy and elegance. In fact, it is almost the last thing you notice.

Sounds like a wine that can stand up to a bit more than just shellfish. Makes me want to go open one right now...

[David M. Bueker]

David,

Herr Schildknecht is one of the most reliable guides to how a wine really tastes.

One other thing to do is check the alcohol levels. A Kabinett with 9% alcohol is likely to be drier than one with 8% alcohol (from two good growers). That doesn't always work, and it doesn't work at all with QbAs (which can be chaptalized), but it's something to check.

QmPs can't be chaptalized, but are they allowed to add sussreserve to sweeten the end product? Or is that rarely done anymore?

[David M. Bueker]

Pradikatswein can have sussreserve added, but indeed it is becoming rarer and rarer. Most top growers stop fermentation instead.

Strub used sussreserve into the late '90s (maybe even through 2000 or so) but has stopped. I've had some great older wines from Strub, so I have never worried about the practice.

[David M. Bueker]

By the way - something I just remembered about strub. Several times he has done a Niersteiner Paterberg Riesling Spatlese***. That designation is because it was high enough must weight for auslese but had no botrytis. Strub only designates a wine as auslese if it has botrytis.

Of course nobody else follows this winery internal convention, but it is an interesting case.

Well, I certainly know who to ask if I can't find a Schildknecht note...

The wise man learns from experience.
The happy man learns from the experience of others.