News Flash: Wine geek drinks Pegau

[David M. Bueker]

Yawn...really good. Yum.

2000 Pegau Cuvee Reservee - very tasty now, though another 5 years would not hurt it.

[David M. Bueker]

Hmm...it is very tasty. I seem to be drinking more.

Be warned David, you seem to be talking to yourself.

[David M. Bueker]

At least I am not arguing with myself. I might lose.

Sometimes white men can jump!

Nothing wrong with that (unless it's one of those wines it's suddenly trendy to knock). Pegau makes some great stuff, and I loved the '00 Cuvee Reservee when I had it once - in fact that's the wine that got me interested in Southern Rhones in the first place.

so, David, did I tell you that even I, yes me, drank Pegau recently? A 1990 brought to dinner by Bob Semon and it was actually pretty decent for CdP.

[David M. Bueker]

1990 Pegau is one of my all-time favorite Rhone wines. I have hopes that the 2001 will equal the magic some day.

Pegau is a great wine. Because Parker and his board slaver all over it, it's hip not to like it. I like to be hip, but I'm insufficiently hip not to like this wine. I haven't had the 00 this year yet. I've liked it everytime I've had it but like the 90 before age 10 it has seemed awkward at times, like a very tall teenager whose body is too big for him or her at the moment. I look forward to checking in again. Except for the 95, I've never had one that you couldn't drink with pleasure at any moment of its life.

Hey, just because you like Pegau doesn't make you an evil person.

That 1990 is splendioso, isn't it? Last had a bottle about 9 years ago. I suppose the next one needs drinking soon, eh?

[David M. Bueker]

If I had any '90 I would not be able to keep my hands off of it.

Jonathan,

Your characterization of the 2000 seems apt in that there was some idea of what would become of the wine, but it's not sufficiently developed to get a real glimpse of overall potential yet.

Pegau is a great wine. Because Parker and his board slaver all over it, it's hip not to like it. I like to be hip, but I'm insufficiently hip not to like this wine.

This gets back to one of the points in the Texier thread. I like Pegau even as I strive to be hip (though I'm not a huge Southern Rhone drinker, so probably like less than you). But at the same time I understand the backlash, as I do consider it overhyped. I once was at a blind CdP tasting where the person next to me (who I frankly think of as a member of Pastor Parker's flock) clearly thought wine number whatever was good but in middle of the pack, till it was unveiled as '98 Pegau and he then voted as his #1 wine of the night. Because it's Pegau. There seem to be people who take it as a given that Pegau is the ne plus ultra of CdP. It's a bit like the '85 Lynch Bages, always a really nice wine, but due to WS WOTY always priced quite a bit more than other vintages I thought as nice.

Pegau is a great wine. Because Parker and his board slaver all over it, it's hip not to like it. I like to be hip, but I'm insufficiently hip not to like this wine.

This gets back to one of the points in the Texier thread. I like Pegau even as I strive to be hip (though I'm not a huge Southern Rhone drinker, so probably like less than you). But at the same time I understand the backlash, as I do consider it overhyped. I once was at a blind CdP tasting where the person next to me (who I frankly think of as a member of Pastor Parker's flock) clearly thought wine number whatever was good but in middle of the pack, till it was unveiled as '98 Pegau and he then voted as his #1 wine of the night. Because it's Pegau. There seem to be people who take it as a given that Pegau is the ne plus ultra of CdP. It's a bit like the '85 Lynch Bages, always a really nice wine, but due to WS WOTY always priced quite a bit more than other vintages I thought as nice.

Anything can be overhyped, of course. I remember when Pegau so absorbed the attention of the Bob board (even they realized it) that noting that say Clos des Papes made OK wine was really being out there. After Parker went kerblooey over the 03, Clos des Papes became impossibly sought after. The fact that something is overhyped doesn't make it bad, however. It can make it too costly. I will no longer now whether Clos des Papes still makes great wine (I suspect it does) because I won't spend $125 for it. Having said that, I do find that Pegau usually does stand out for me in tastings and even more so, when I spend an evening with a bottle.

Had this wine last week with 10 others in an open red wine tasting. We had '86 and '82 Bordeaux, '98, '99 and CnP, a William Selham plus more. The '00 Pegau got the most 1st place votes. I preferred the '86 Montrose but that is just my palate.
Walt

[David M. Bueker]

From what I know of you Walt, your preference makes perfect sense. I wish my preferences were both that focused and that consistent. It would save me a lot of time.

From what I know of you Walt, your preference makes perfect sense. I wish my preferences were both that focused and that consistent. It would save me a lot of time.

David,
Don't get me wrong, they were all excellent wines, I am just a sucker for old Bordeaux. The '86 Montrose was beautiful, '82 LMHB opened wonderfully but then faded after about 1 hour, the '82 Talbot did what the LMHB did but in reverse as it opened up wonderfully. The noses on these wines were so typical and so great, half of the attraction to Bordeaux. '98 CnP is an aquired taste vintage, IMHO, and even though I enjoyed them they just seemed different. Many liked the William Selham but just too fruit forward for me. Also had a couple of really nice Burgs but can't remember any details, must be that Mad Cow disease.

I just finished my wine inventory since my wife is out of town and France (63% with Bordeaux at 27%) and Italy (15%)gained in percentage and domestic lost. I am down to just one mailing list wine, Rafanelli. For your information Germany overtook Spain with 3% vs 2%, now if I could just understand their labels.
Walt

Except for the 95, I've never had one that you couldn't drink with pleasure at any moment of its life.

Guess I got really lucky with the '95s - had a bottle of the 95 Cuvee Laurence that just seemed to be firing on all cylinders (even the person who opened it, who'd cellared it since release and had plenty of experience with the vintage and Pegau was shocked at just how stunning that bottle was) and stands out as probably my most enjoyably bottle of Chateauneuf yet - and a '95 Cuvee Reservee that was really, really nice once I got used to the tannic backbone that was still there.

Anything can be overhyped, of course. I remember when Pegau so absorbed the attention of the Bob board (even they realized it) that noting that say Clos des Papes made OK wine was really being out there. After Parker went kerblooey over the 03, Clos des Papes became impossibly sought after. The fact that something is overhyped doesn't make it bad, however. It can make it too costly. I will no longer now whether Clos des Papes still makes great wine (I suspect it does) because I won't spend $125 for it. Having said that, I do find that Pegau usually does stand out for me in tastings and even more so, when I spend an evening with a bottle.

I've not had anywhere near your experience with CdPs, but I've found Pegau (at least the Cuvee Reservee) to be quite singular in its flavour profile - a bottle of '00 CDP got me hooked onto Southern Rhones, and it took a bit of exploration before I came down to earth pretty hard and realized all (heck, most) CDPs wouldn;t taste anything like that particular bottle of Pegau. Most of the other bottles of Pegau I've been able to drink have been quite singular and stunning in their aromatic profile and balance - regardless of who hypes/rates it, I find those are gorgeous wines.
BTW, re Clos des Papes - have noticed the prices softening a little bit recently. Saw that Flickinger in Chicago has the '04 for about $67 - is that anywhere near what Clos des Papes used to retail for before the '03 hype from RMP?

[David M. Bueker]

I bought '98 Clos de Papes for $35 & '00 for $39.

I got my Clos des Papes 98 futures for $25, but that's not realistic as a price anymore. I bought my 01 for probably $40. The problem isn't just Parker. Clos des Papes charges around 40E at the domaines, which with the current exchange rate, would be $56. Pegau charged 34 Euros (I think), or about $48 for the 06. For prices of these wines to fall back to even $50 a bottle on this side of the pond (except through grey market, which Pegau, at least, actively fights against), the domaInes would have to suffer so much that many of them would go under. So even though I can't or won't buy many wines that I used to love, I can't wish for their prices to fall back without wishing economic disaster on the winemakers, which I really don't want to see.

... Clos des Papes charges around 40E at the domaines, which with the current exchange rate, would be $56. Pegau charged 34 Euros (I think), or about $48 for the 06. For prices of these wines to fall back to even $50 a bottle on this side of the pond (except through grey market, which Pegau, at least, actively fights against), the domaInes would have to suffer so much that many of them would go under. So even though I can't or won't buy many wines that I used to love, I can't wish for their prices to fall back without wishing economic disaster on the winemakers, which I really don't want to see.

David, why would what the domain charges at the door be related to their production costs? Isn't this the owners simply trying to 'harvest' more of the aftermarket profit for themselves? If some producers can charge about $30US for some of their cuvees Stateside (and make money doing so), then why would charging less for Clos du Papes/Pegau lead them to bankruptcy? I don't understand.

... Clos des Papes charges around 40E at the domaines, which with the current exchange rate, would be $56. Pegau charged 34 Euros (I think), or about $48 for the 06. For prices of these wines to fall back to even $50 a bottle on this side of the pond (except through grey market, which Pegau, at least, actively fights against), the domaInes would have to suffer so much that many of them would go under. So even though I can't or won't buy many wines that I used to love, I can't wish for their prices to fall back without wishing economic disaster on the winemakers, which I really don't want to see.

David, why would what the domain charges at the door be related to their production costs? Isn't this the owners simply trying to 'harvest' more of the aftermarket profit for themselves? If some producers can charge about $30US for some of their cuvees Stateside (and make money doing so), then why would charging less for Clos du Papes/Pegau lead them to bankruptcy? I don't understand.

I'm Jonathan. The situation is somewhat more complex than simply production costs, although that is not minimal. Wines like these depend on low yields from vineyards that have become costly to buy. Domaines like Clos des Papes and Pegau do buy ritzy vineyards when they can (Pegau's la Crau site was bought since I think 95). When their wines start to command more money, they also invest in new cellars, better ways of storing their wines, etc. etc., which creates debt that wine sales need to finance. And they invest in various other ways as well. Just selling wine under one's own label rather than selling it to Guigal is a financial risk, since one can sell the bulk quickly and easily to Guigal. Pegau didn't even exist before 1987 (well, there was Feraud et Fils, but it wasn't exported anywhere). One sees new labels because new domaines are ready to take the risk of bottling their own wines, which also causes new investment in cellars, land, bottling equipment, etc. For frequent visitors to the area, the amount of investment that occurred after the 89 and 90 vintages, which increased market and recognition for CdP, was quite evident. The run of good vintages since 98 has caused more and more evident investment. To get back to Pegau, they are at this moment, building new buildings to give themselves more cellar room, among a number of other things. They are invested in various lines of wines that now get marketed under the Feraud name. All that investment means debt. A wine crash would certainly affect CA, where there is more current debt a lot more, bought it would be pretty devastating to CdP.

so, David, did I tell you that even I, yes me, drank Pegau recently? A 1990 brought to dinner by Bob Semon and it was actually pretty decent for CdP.

Maureen, it's good to see you around here again. I have a question though, now that Dubya is out of office, what are you doing for entertainment?

[David M. Bueker]

By the way, the second half of the bottle held up very well & even showed a little bit of the secondary elements (leather, warm earth) I was hoping for.

I like Pegau. But not enough to keep buying it at the prices now asked (just got an offering for the 2006).
Bought the Vatican Sixtine instead.

Everyone drinks it too young. I had one of my remaining bottles of 1990 Lawrence recently - just right!