What's a "noble tannin"?

[Jenise]

The Wine Advocate, in describing a Napa Valley (Hundred Acre) wine, used the term thus: “All things considered, this is an extraordinary group of wines...The most common characteristic among all of the Hundred Acre Cabernet Sauvignons is their incredibly opulent, creamy textures. That character vindicates Woodbridge’s harvesting decisions as he seems to achieve extraordinarily sweet, noble tannins in all of his wines…”

I know what noble rot is (botrytis cinerea) and that is a perfectly acceptable term but I cannot help but think that referring to noble tannins is little more than a poetic qua schmaltzy use of jargon.

Best
Rogov

Jenise, here is a link to a web page that refers to noble tannins vs rustic tannins. it's pretty interesting reading, and the term is for me a new one, or at least one I had no idea of what was meant. Your question has led me to some enlightenment

http://www.thewinedoctor.com/loire/druet.shtml

Hi Jenise
You might find the following link interesting from the Wine Doctor;
http://www.thewinedoctor.com/loire/druet.shtml
Sorry Bob you beat me my a minute!

Salute

Sorry guys, but I cannot help but think that the Russian term bullshitsky applies here. There are soft tannins. There are firm tannins. There are gripping tannins There are searing and near-searing tannins. There are chunky tannins. There are country-style tannins. And yes, there are even near-sweet tannins But "noble tannins"..........no way, San Jose.

Ye faithful curmudgeon
Rogov

Sorry guys, but I cannot help but think that the Russian term bullshitsky applies here. There are soft tannins. There are firm tannins. There are gripping tannins There are searing and near-searing tannins. There are chunky tannins. There are country-style tannins. And yes, there are even near-sweet tannins But "noble tannins"..........no way, San Jose.

Ye faithful curmudgeon
Rogov

Daniel, if you keep that kind of reporting up, you will someday get to be a real curmudgeon, like me!

Interesting. Sounds like a useful way to differentiate between less and more aggressive tannins. Soft, fine vs firm, gripping or noble vs. rustic, these are all equally valid ways of describing the sensory experience. I kind of like it.

[Robin Garr]

For me, I'm with Rogov, although I try to avoid an excess of curmudgeonness. I like the idea of differentiating between less-aggressive and more-aggressive tannins too, David. But "noble" is the kind of subjective, meaningless wine term that I'd rather pass on by. Actually, I'm not all that fond of using it to set aside a certain hierarchy of "Noble Varieties" either. You always end up in endless arguments about whether Zinfandel (for example) makes the list or not.

Interesting. Sounds like a useful way to differentiate between less and more aggressive tannins. Soft, fine vs firm, gripping or noble vs. rustic, these are all equally valid ways of describing the sensory experience. I kind of like it.

It reminds me of a sommelier in Paris who tried to persuade an American couple next to me to choose a Merlot, because its tannins were "ignorant and mild".

Greetings from Sweden / Fredrik L

It's simple. Noble tannins are just the kind of tannins found in the most noble wines! Ha ha ha...

It's simple. Noble tannins are just the kind of tannins found in the most noble wines! Ha ha ha...

Is the title hereditary? And does it come with a little piece of land?

We seem to have no problem “gauging” rot or a mold.

Salute

We seem to have no problem “gauging” rot or a mold.

Salute

Which reminds me of the lady whom I met at the German Wine Academy - she was the guest of a much more serious student and probably would have preferred to be somewhere else. She could never get the hang of botrytis, nor recall its name, so she usually referred to botrytis as "honourable mould" (she was from England, so I'll hold to her spelling).
I've always preferred that term since then. Much more genteel (and even more evocative).

The Wine Advocate, in describing a Napa Valley (Hundred Acre) wine, used the term thus: “All things considered, this is an extraordinary group of wines...The most common characteristic among all of the Hundred Acre Cabernet Sauvignons is their incredibly opulent, creamy textures. That character vindicates Woodbridge’s harvesting decisions as he seems to achieve extraordinarily sweet, noble tannins in all of his wines…”

Neophrases are a bit like neologisms. Americans are famous for them, and many express a nuance like previous phrases or words could not. Did you read in the NYT Sunday Magazine a week ago that there are now 1 million words in English, whilst the French are confined to only 100,000, because of their resistance to such engendering? Noble tannins works for me. I like it.

I'm a little uncomfortable with it - we've got enough descriptors (as mentioned above - but throw 'fine' as the opposite to chunky in as well for good measure). It's hard enough to get consistency of understanding as it is! Noble for me is ambiguous here - are they firm and gripping like Barolo, or refined and delicate? Or is it just a superlative being thrown in without explanation? I'm tending towards the latter.

regards

Ian

Ian,
The “firm and gripping” IMHO refers to the “intensity” of the tannin whereas “refined and delicate” the type of tannin.

Salute

[David M. Bueker]

I'll accept the usage if I ever see "ignonble tannins" in print.

We seem to have no problem “gauging” rot or a mold.

Salute

Which reminds me of the lady whom I met at the German Wine Academy - she was the guest of a much more serious student and probably would have preferred to be somewhere else. She could never get the hang of botrytis, nor recall its name, so she usually referred to botrytis as "honourable mould" (she was from England, so I'll hold to her spelling).
I've always preferred that term since then. Much more genteel (and even more evocative).

Bearing in mind the location perhaps her "honourable mould" was just milder "version" of "noble rot" or edelfäule.

Victor
Fair enough and I follow your logic - though to be honest I hadn't intended them to be either/or, just possible interpretations of what someone might refer to as 'noble' tannins.
regards
Ian

I'll accept the usage if I ever see "ignoble tannins" in print.

Common tannins!

Vulgar tannins!

Untouchable tannins!

Trailer-Trash Tannins!

etc...

[Robin Garr]

Perhaps a fairly literal translation of the German "Edelfäule" the version she would have been more likely to hear among German wine people than "botrytis"?

Which reminds me of the lady whom I met at the German Wine Academy - she was the guest of a much more serious student and probably would have preferred to be somewhere else. She could never get the hang of botrytis, nor recall its name, so she usually referred to botrytis as "honourable mould" (she was from England, so I'll hold to her spelling).
I've always preferred that term since then. Much more genteel (and even more evocative).

It's simple. Noble tannins are just the kind of tannins found in the most noble wines! Ha ha ha...

Is the title hereditary? And does it come with a little piece of land?

No, probably not.

In all seriousness, I can't say that I know precisely what "noble tannins" are but knowing my own taste in tannins I assume I wouldn't be overly excited about them in this context. I'm guessing noble is a poetic way of saying the tannins may be present but are integrated, not "forward" and not rustic or earthy. Bad, bad, bad Just kidding. As long as the taster knows what noble means to them then that's the main thing. I may not know exactly how he/she is using the term but, myself, when I hear a wine texturally/tannic-ally being described as noble, I at least know it probably isn't my taste. Sounds like a positive (in the taster's eyes) way of expressing that, more or less, the tannins are not abundant, predominant or really there at this stage in the wine's life. At least that's how my tastes perceive "noble" as a tannin/texture/weight descriptor. Yet, I suppose the true meaning and value of terms ultimately lies (at least by their origin) in the pen of the beholder (author). For all I know maybe the term noble IS meant to describe tannins that are abundant, chalky, blissfully swarming and lustfully exotic in the mouth. In which case all is good! Okay, I'm off to take a cold shower now...

Jeff

I'll accept the usage if I ever see "ignoble tannins" in print.

Common tannins!

Vulgar tannins!

Untouchable tannins!

Trailer-Trash Tannins!

etc...

Proletariat tannins
Pleb tannins
working class tannins

I shall have to sneak these into a tasting note