Suggestions for interesting and tannic red wines.

As I've mentioned, I haven't been drinking wine for several months, in part because of a negative reaction I had to a prescription medicine and in part because I've been exploring the South Beach program for heart health.

I stopped taking the medication last January and started the South Beach program in mid-January eating only the so called Phase 1 foods which prohibit alcohol. I've been slowly moving into Phase 2, having learned that I'm extraordinarily addicted to sugars. They don't appeal to me at all unless I have just a tiny bit, but after that bit, it's Katy Bar the Door!

My doctor strongly suggests a glass or two of red wine each night -- bless his heart -- and his technique is to buy young Bordeaux, second labels primarily, open a bottle as he leaves in the morning and put it on the counter top. He then drinks it over the next two evenings. (He sounds a little boorish, but is a real gourmet, often going to Europe or the States and exploring fine restaurants in a very systematic fashion.)

I'm going to start drinking red wine next month after a checkup with a cardiologist. This is all a long intro to my basic question; can this company suggest some tannic red wines that would be interesting to explore?

Many thanks, Bob

[David M. Bueker]

Bob,

Find some Cahors! Lower level 2005 Bordeaux might also work well.

Cahors definetely my first thought as well, though there is plenty of variation there as makers attempt to remove the rough edges at (perhaps) risk of losing the identity of the wine.

Madiran (tannat) might be another option.

... but I can't quite connect the rest of the context and the sugar addiction, to the need for tannic wine If you want (fruit) sweetness and tannins, then maybe we're looking for wines with quite high extract?

regards

Ian

Recommend a current vintage of a Petite Sirah such as EOS or others of that ilk.

You want tannins, my friend, look no further:

Dunn makes some Cabs from California that are certainly tannic.

I've been experimenting with Portuguese wines recently and traditional styled Bairrada (made primarily from the Baga grape) or some Douro wines heavy on the Touriga Nacional might fit the bill. Or old style Petite Sirah?

Glad to see your name here again!

You want tannins, my friend, look no further:

Dave

I have been trying to insert photos from around Stollenbosch for a post on South Africa but can not cut and paste. Does this forum format only support photos that are on a website somewhere? I would prefer just to cut and paste off my computer than have to open a website somewhere.

Mark

[David M. Bueker]

Mark,

You can upload photos (but not cut and paste). They have to be fairly small (max of 500x500 and no more than 100 KB), but if you want to upload them just use the upload attachment tab at the bottom of the reply screen.

... but I can't quite connect the rest of the context and the sugar addiction, to the need for tannic wine If you want (fruit) sweetness and tannins, then maybe we're looking for wines with quite high extract?

I honestly don't know, Ian -- pure speculation on my part. My internist suggested that I try a high tannic wine, partly to simply block the sweetness of fruit, which seems to trigger the addiction. It's not entirely clear what causes the problems for me -- I eat lots of tomatoes, for example, often heavily carmelized -- they sure taste sweet -- but they never trigger binges.

But unsweetened blueberries, even those on the unripe side, can trigger the desire for more sweets. I'm considering getting a glucose kit and testing my reactions to fruits to see if there are any "safe" ones to add to my diet.

The results of being on the South Beach program have been so extraordinary that I'm being very conservative about adding foods to the menu.

In any event, my internist -- chosen regularly as one of the top doctors in NYC by his peers -- chose high tannic wines for the healthy heart benefits. I'll ask him to spell out the connection more fully next time we get together.

Best, Bob

Chateau Pradeaux. Gloriously delicious tannin soup.

... but I can't quite connect the rest of the context and the sugar addiction, to the need for tannic wine If you want (fruit) sweetness and tannins, then maybe we're looking for wines with quite high extract?

I honestly don't know, Ian -- pure speculation on my part. My internist suggested that I try a high tannic wine, partly to simply block the sweetness of fruit, which seems to trigger the addiction. It's not entirely clear what causes the problems for me -- I eat lots of tomatoes, for example, often heavily carmelized -- they sure taste sweet -- but they never trigger binges.

But unsweetened blueberries, even those on the unripe side, can trigger the desire for more sweets. I'm considering getting a glucose kit and testing my reactions to fruits to see if there are any "safe" ones to add to my diet.

The results of being on the South Beach program have been so extraordinary that I'm being very conservative about adding foods to the menu.

In any event, my internist -- chosen regularly as one of the top doctors in NYC by his peers -- chose high tannic wines for the healthy heart benefits. I'll ask him to spell out the connection more fully next time we get together.

Best, Bob

Now, that is truly a shame, Bob. Blueberries are SO good for you.

Bob
Thanks for the clarification - I'd read the sugar situation as really liking it - not it being a problem in creating a craving for more sugar.

Some alcoholic wines can appear sweet, even though they have no more residual sugar than other comparable wines, but it's feasible that it's sugar that sets off the craving, rather than the perception of sugar - but that's speculation on my part.

It might be worth looking at a wider range, if only to test out what works / what doesn't. I'm also thinking along the lines of 'lip-smacking' reds, to avoid the dense/rich-fruitedness creeping into many popular wine styles. Chianti, Beaujolais, Loire Reds, Red Burgundy, Cru Bourgeois Bordeaux. Not all tannic styles, but sometimes tannin is played off against sweet fruit or even a touch of residual sugar.

regards
Ian

Now, that is truly a shame, Bob. Blueberries are SO good for you.

I agree. The first fruit I added to my Phase 2 eating and I'm keeping them there.

A couple of things help -- eating them at lunch rather than breakfast and eating them with foods with other strong tastes -- the 0% fat Greek yogurts like Fage or one of my homemade yogurts seem to offset the sweetness and don't lead to the urges -- or at least not so much.

I still have dinner to fill up on, and have come up with a dozen standby snacks that taste great and damp down the Sweetness Binge Monster.

(We seem to be agreeing an awfully lot, Chef. )

Best, Bob

Nebbiolo, and the traditional Italians are about as dry as dry gets. Consider Anglianico as well.

Bob how are you finding the South Beach programme. My doctor is also on at me to lose pounds for similar reasons but nothing seems to be working. I am interested in how you find this programme.

I've truly enjoyed it, Mark. I'm working up a summary of the first 20 weeks (which will end in mid-June) just after a meeting with my cardiologist to review my blood levels and my activity levels. Today I wrote up my 16 week summary, not a full review, but sort of a snapshot of how it has gone.

I tried the program at the suggestion of my cardiologist, primarily to improve blood levels and to be able to better help my wife Janet who is facing some difficult health problems. Weight loss was not a priority, although I soon became convinced that my belly was a matter of serious concern.

In any event, here's a partial report I sent today to the nutrionist on the South Beach site who is following my progress (and lack thereof):

Here's a bit of data from my first 16 weeks on the South Beach approach; in a sense my 20 week summary should be more interesting because I'll have the blood tests and some input from the cardiologist on my level of activity. But, for what it is worth:

I had a suit renovated last December, and got my measurements from the tailor at Saks -- my weight was 204 that day, so the comparative numbers are fairly accurate. The first numbers are from January 17 and the second numbers from May 10.

Chest 45 39 -6
Belly 46 40 -6
Belt 41 36 -5
Butt 43 38 -5

Belly Butt ratio 1.07 1.05

Weight 202 165 -35 -2.2 pounds per week

BMI 32.6 22.6

[I'm analyzing the weight variations week to week as you asked and will revert.]

Calories eaten 190,540
Calories from Bob 129,500

Calories used per day 2,859

Calories used per day per pound 15.4

Needed to maintain 140 pounds at this activity 2,158

***
I'm working up a 16 week overall summary and will send it on in due course. Two points of interest:

-- Week 16 was the most stressful week of the period for the health reasons we've discussed -- perhaps a 9.0 on a 10 point scale -- but I was able to move my calories up to 10,300 for the week and not lose control of either foods or quantities.

I've attached a draft copy of my plan for coping with stress induced eating -- it needs some revision, but worked pretty well for me this week.

I'm glad to answer any questions, Mark. Best, Bob

Bob, your summary makes for some very interesting reading. I am not fully comprehending it all, and am hoping that you will explain a couple things. I am making some guesses on the below but want to be sure that I understand. Sorry Bob, for me being so dense headed, and thanks for your report.

1. the calories eaten, and calories from Bob

2. calories used per day.

3. Needed to maintain......


I hope I am not premature, but I wanted to say congratulations on being able to add back a little wine into your daily diet.

Bob, really glad to see you posting here (but sorry to hear that Janet is having health issues). Congratulations on your progress on your own health.

If tannins are a priority, then Cahors, Barolo, Petite Sirah, etc are good suggestions. Old style Dolcetto can be pretty tannic, too. But my guess is with your cardiologist's "young Bordeaux" suggestion he just means a wine with some good tannins, not the absolute highest tannins possible. Especially if he does second labels, which tend to be less tannic/structured than the first labels. I'd suggest trying an assortment of 2005 satellite Bdx , things from Cotes de Castillon, Bourg, etc.

Even better- I remember you posting interesting notes based on a mixed case that Lyle at CSW put together for you. Think he's not there anymore, but why don't you call Jamie or David and say put together:
1) a case of assorted reds
2) moderate or higher tannins
3) will hold up well over few days
4) under $20 a bottle?
Bet you end up with some fun stuff.

Welcome back

Bob

Thanks for that. Most interesting. Basically I also need to take about 5 inches off the belt line. I will look into this further and may come back to you with a PM for more info and perspective if that is ok.

Cheers
Mark

Bob, your summary makes for some very interesting reading. I am not fully comprehending it all, and am hoping that you will explain a couple things. I am making some guesses on the below but want to be sure that I understand. Sorry Bob, for me being so dense headed, and thanks for your report.

1. the calories eaten, and calories from Bob

2. calories used per day.

3. Needed to maintain......


I hope I am not premature, but I wanted to say congratulations on being able to add back a little wine into your daily diet.

Hi Bob -- not at all being dense headed on your part -- it took me months to understand something Stuart has been preaching -- his Phycist's Diet -- if you want to lose weight, you have to eat less and exercise more -- or something like that.

I tried to make it into a formula and run a model on Excel; here's my take:

Starting weight was 202 pounds. At the end of the period I weighed 165 pounds, so had lost 37 pounds. Most of the diet books call that 3,500 calories per pound, or a total of 129,500 calories -- the amount of Bob I used up during the 16 weeks.

In addition, I ate 190,540 calories over the 16 weeks. I kept track every day in a journal and used two methods to figure out the calories, one I invented and another on a system called SparkPeople.

So, over the 16 weeks, I used a total of 320,242 calories (129,500 from Bob and 190,540).

There are 112 days in 16 weeks, so I used an average of 2,859 calories a day (320,242 divided by 112).

My average weight over the 16 weeks was 185.5 pounds, so I used 15.4 calories each day for each pound (2,859 divided by 185.5).

It's fun to model Stuart's basic formula on a day by day basis:

Original Weight (in calories) plus calories eaten minus calories used = Final Weight

It is also useful to figure out how many calories you can eat if you want to maintain a particular weight. My tentative goal is 140 pounds, so I when I reach that happy day I'll be able to eat 2,156 calories a day (15.4 calories per pound per day multiplied by 140 pounds).

That assumes I'll continue to exercise at the present level. In fact, I would expect the 15.4 rate would decrease because I'll be carting around 25 less pounds than I am today. Modeling the expected weight using this formula and then comparing with my actual weight. If I see that my actual weight is lower than predicted, I know I can increase calories, and vice versa.

In any event, blame Stuart for all this, as for so much else.

Best, Bob

PS: In fact, I often bless Stuart -- it is great fun to run the numbers once the model is set up using different calories eaten per day and seeing how long it would take to get to my target weight. B

Even better- I remember you posting interesting notes based on a mixed case that Lyle at CSW put together for you. Think he's not there anymore, but why don't you call Jamie or David and say put together:
1) a case of assorted reds
2) moderate or higher tannins
3) will hold up well over few days
4) under $20 a bottle?
Bet you end up with some fun stuff.

Welcome back

Great idea, Dale -- I'll send in an order the day after my cardiology appointment (hopefully).

Thank you, Bob

[David M. Bueker]

So 15.4 calories pound is essentially "sustaining food" for a target weight? Then any exercise comes off of that.

Simple. So I can consume about 3000 calories a day & never get back on the treadmill? I like the sound of that.

Seriously, I want to get back down to about 195 or so, so it looks like if I shoot for 3000 cals per day & continue my vigorous exercise regimen (25-30 miles of walking per week plus some weight lifting, not to mention all the summer yard work) I should eventually get there.

So 15.4 calories pound is essentially "sustaining food" for a target weight? Then any exercise comes off of that.

Simple. So I can consume about 3000 calories a day & never get back on the treadmill? I like the sound of that.

Seriously, I want to get back down to about 195 or so, so it looks like if I shoot for 3000 cals per day & continue my vigorous exercise regimen (25-30 miles of walking per week plus some weight lifting, not to mention all the summer yard work) I should eventually get there.

The beauty of the model, David, is that it is self correcting. My 15.4 calories pound number changes from time to time -- it was 15.2 last week. As I mentioned, I expect it will go down as my weight goes down. In fact, it's fun to graph it, not only in total but also on a running basis.

The key drivers are calories eaten and ending weight; the last time I ran the model, I assumed 1600 calories a day, and projected that I would get to 140 pounds in mid October.

In case you want to play with the model, here's a run I did a few weeks ago:

Weight Eat Use Difference New Wt
4/12 173 1200 2,905 (1,705) 172.5
4/13 173 1200 2,897 (1,697) 172.0
4/14 172 1200 2,889 (1,689) 171.5
4/15 172 1200 2,881 (1,681) 171.1
4/16 171 1200 2,873 (1,673) 170.6
4/17 171 1200 2,865 (1,665) 170.1
4/18 170 1200 2,857 (1,657) 169.6
4/19 170 1200 2,849 (1,649) 169.2
4/20 169 1200 2,841 (1,641) 168.7
4/21 169 1200 2,833 (1,633) 168.2
4/22 168 1200 2,825 (1,625) 167.8
4/23 168 1200 2,818 (1,618) 167.3
4/24 167 1200 2,810 (1,610) 166.8
4/25 167 1200 2,802 (1,602) 166.4
4/26 166 1200 2,794 (1,594) 165.9
4/27 166 1200 2,787 (1,587) 165.5
4/28 165 1200 2,779 (1,579) 165.0
4/29 165 1200 2,772 (1,572) 164.6
4/30 165 1200 2,764 (1,564) 164.1
5/1 164 1200 2,757 (1,557) 163.7
5/2 164 1200 2,749 (1,549) 163.2

I'll be glad to email anyone a copy of my model -- robcurtross@hotmail.com

Best, Bob