Question about Sancerre

What sort of tertiary aroma characteristics characterize Sancerre? I attended a Loire tasting the other night led by a representative from Robert Kacher, and many at our table all seemed to find the Sancerre slightly...off. It wasn't corked, but it had a kind of musty, skunky smell. However, there were a couple of people who said that it was classic Sancerre. We asked the rep but didn't get a decisive opinion from him (he kind of hedged and said that every bottle is different). In fact, we compared notes with those at two other tables, and each of our bottles seemed to yield something a little different, even though it was the same wine.

can you remind us which producer this is. the importer is well regarded; but the answer to your query was way off. i still think possibly cork taint; but it could also be reduction (sort of a rubbery smell) or even H2S. what vintage please. anyway, classic sancerre has the typical grassy sauvignon blanc aromas plus in some vintages a very slight peach character - which is even more pronounced in neighboring menetou-salon. the acid should be quite high. it should NOT smell like NZ sauvignon blanc - bell pepper and green bean. it should NOT be alcholic - but elegant and quafable. 2007 is a classic vintage - perhaps as good as 2002.

David, it was a 2007 Domaine Thomas. It didn't really seem to have any of the characteristic SB traits...no grass, no grapefruit, no discernible fruit...just a really funky, skunky smell. I noticed in the literature that they mentioned gunpowder as one of the aromas associated with some Loire wines and thought that perhaps that's what we were getting and misinterpreting. I've never actually smelled gunpowder so I don't know!

Krystyn, mix a tiny bit of powdered sulphur and charcoal and torch it with a cigarette lighter. The olfactory result is "gunpowder." That's not the same as what you describe, though, and it sounds like you just got a TCA tainted wine.

I'm not familiar with the smell of skunks, but that are aromatics in SB that some call "cat's pee". I'm not convinced it smells like cat's pee at all, but SB certainly can have a nose that is very sharply pungent. Could that be it?

It's usually Pouilly Fumé that is associated with gun flint - the smokiness you get when a flint is struck. And as I understand it, the characteristic is meant to distinguish PF from Sancerre.

I wouln't read too much into different tables having different notes - happens all the time even when the wine is exactly the same.

ok, well, thomas is a very fine producer and should be especially so in 2007. i'm guessing perhaps a combinations of low level TCA and some H2S. i'd try to get hold of another bottle; the H2S should go away with extended breathing and hopefully leave a very good wine. this vintage is the best since '02 and perhaps its equal.

Coincidentally, I 'm going to a Sauvignon Blanc tasting tonight offered along with tapas at Elliott's on Linden in Pinehurst, NC. I hope they include Loire and New Zealand examples. Will report back Monday if I can.

Why would a 2007 show tertiary characteristics?

What kind of rep would suggest that?

Why would a 2007 show tertiary characteristics?

What kind of rep would suggest that?

The rep didn't...that was all me, grasping for some reason for the skunky smell after being told there was nothing wrong with the bottle. Incidentally, I was at a tasting the other night themed "Barnyard Elegance" and the guy leading the class brought a 2007 Kistler Chardonnay as an example of a young, white wine with tertiary characterstics. On his little wine tasting chart that he gives out, he lists hay, smoke, tea, musk, stone and iron as tertiary characteristics in white wines. The Kistler did indeed have hay aromas, and after trying the next white and going back to it, it actually had notes of baked chicken (when I mentioned it, others said they could see what I was talking about, so it wasn't just me). So I guess a young, white wine can have tertiary characterstics? For that matter, isn't minerality a tertiary characteristic that is common in many young, white wines?

What do you mean by 'tertiary characteristics'?

i'm sorry - primary, secondary, now tertiary??? i guess the primary ones are the aromas of the fruit, fermentation, oak additives? what are spoilage aromas? brett, VA, H2S, reduction, oxidation? but really, tertiary???? come on.

Primary means from the fruit, secondary means from the cellar, and tertiary means from bottle-aging. It's not clear how a young Kistler Chardonnay would be a good example of tertiary aromas, although it would probably be an excellent example of secondary aromas.

How old was the Sancerre?

'07 according to the third message in this topic. Hardly ancient.

John

I am a big fan of Sancerre, but the typical prices are daunting. Still, I will occassionally pay $20 +/- for a nice bottle. The regular bottling from Thomas has been a disappointment over the last few years, and apparently the '07 is no different. Sloppy winemaking is the only excuse I can think of. Maybe he ages in old oak that imparts off flavors, but I agree that the basic bottling is not good nor is it classic Sancerre. Try another producer and I think you will be "swept off your feet".

the guy leading the class brought a 2007 Kistler Chardonnay as an example of a young, white wine with tertiary characterstics...So I guess a young, white wine can have tertiary characterstics? For that matter, isn't minerality a tertiary characteristic that is common in many young, white wines?

As others have mentioned, I don't think minerality is a tertiary characteristic and this seems like an all-around weird class. But, even in those cirucmstances, one can learn something!