Cheese with Red Burgundy

Hi Tom,

One of the best burg-cheese matches I have ever had was Oka cheese with mushrooms Oka cheese is made in Quebec, Canada and I am not sure if you can get it in the US, but it is what I would call semihard cheese (not as hard as cheddar). I agree that a good Manchego would also be a nice match.

I'm with those who think that poorly matched wine and cheese (or other food) will ruin the wine. Or, more precisely, the wine won't taste like much.

I love Pierre Robert, but it will obliterate the nuance of any red wine. I can't count the number of bottles that were great with the main course but just didn't stand up to a course of great cheeses.

Manchegos vary in age from 3 to 36 months; that largely accounts for their difference in quality and price. I know why people are skeptical about Epoisses and burgundy, but I have found that a not too stinky Epoisses (a little on the young side) and a youngish Burgundy can be really enjoyable together. I think part of it is the mouthfeel of the cheese, of Eposisse, which, when good, is almost like taffy. I don't know another like it. For that reason, too (another heresy, I know), a semi-aged goat cheese, like Humboldt fog or a Pyramide can also be a good accompaniment. After all, isn't it not just the sweeter fruits, but the acidity that can make white wine a good match for some cheese, and doesn't red Burg often share this as well?

Josh

I can't really opine - I've never had manchego or any other cheese from Costco. Manchego can indeed be young and soft or increasingly older, harder and more pungent. All of them can be very good, or less good. As in France, the best are made with unpasteurized milk. Also, some of the best ewes' milk cheese in Spain is not technically manchego but castellano - not from La Mancha, but from Old Castile, where such prized producers as Boffard or Flor de Esgueva are located.

I have never had fish with a red of any kind that didn't end up making the wine taste metallic...so maybe if you get the sauce right it's do-able.

I think that is indeed the whole point. It all depends on the sauce. And of course the fish, the cooking method, the wine, etc..

In general Manchego is too sharp for my palate. I can usually have it if it's coated with a fig spread (come to think of it, that combination may just work with red Burgundy). I like Rogov's idea of Raclette, I think Tomme de Savoie would work also. Hallumi is too salty for me, even fried.

In general Manchego is too sharp for my palate.

That's interesting. I have always found it to tend towards sweet and nutty. Although I haven't had any in Spain.

In general Manchego is too sharp for my palate.

That's interesting. I have always found it to tend towards sweet and nutty. Although I haven't had any in Spain.

As far as sheep's milk cheeses, I much prefer milder ones; Ossau-Iraty, Pecorino Toscano or Sardo

Manchego gets sharper with age. You ones will be soft but will have less character. An older mature sharper cheese works very well against an Amontillado, for instance.

At the risk of repeating myself, the question of whether a wine goes with a particular food needs (IMO) to be more highly particularized.

You CAN take a lovely Alsatian Grand Cru Gewurztraminer, and have it with moderately spicy Indian or Chinese food. How you evaluate the match depends on which end of the matter you are looking up - if a foodie, your answer may be that it worked out quite well, and cooled your palate from the surfeit of spice in the food. A person looking at it from the point of view of a wine fan might respond that the food didn't quite destroy the wine, but it came damned close, and that the wine would have been far more enjoyable on its own or with a better food match.

Assuming that we are all talking from a wine base here, the question one shoudl ask is whether the food made the wine more, or less enjoyable. In my experience, a strongly flavoured cheese can ruin a mature Burgundy, especially a stinky type (of cheese, not Burg). A soft younger cheese can mute the acidity (and sometimes tannins) of a young Burgundy, on the other hand. My best advice is to always taste the wine alone, then sample it with the cheese, and if you don't think it is an improvement, by all that is holy STOP and finish the wine alone before going on to the cheese. Many times we've had to do this, or have saved the wine until the cheese is consumed, although that method may leave you with a palate that is not going to recover in a reasonable time.

In general Manchego is too sharp for my palate.

Manchego is never markedly sharp - even well-aged manchego.

In general Manchego is too sharp for my palate.

Manchego is never markedly sharp - even well-aged manchego.

To my palate it is. I am very delicate

As far as sheep's milk cheeses, I much prefer milder ones; Ossau-Iraty, Pecorino Toscano or Sardo

I'm not sure what you mean by 'mild' - from my experiences Ossau-Iraty and Sardo are typically stronger and gamier than the sweeter and nuttier Manchego.

I have a feeling this variation in our opinions may come more from exposure to different versions of the specific cheeses.

I think it would be frankly bizarre to say that "red wine does not go with cheese", but like religion, sex, and suchlike we are not in the realm of things very objective here.

One of the world's leading wine writers, Hugh Johnson, says he does not like cheese with wine.
You can't "argue" with such things. It's all a matter of personal preferences.

It's true that some of the "pronouncements" (or statements perceived to that effect) on this thread are offputting.

Yes, a ripe époisses may kill the subtleties of a fine red wine.
But, it would also kill the subtleties of a fine *white* wine!

OK, a crottin de Chavignol, for instance, is probably better with a dry white wine than a red.
But I'd be delighted to have it with a fine glass of Bordeaux or Burgundy too!

As the English say, "let's not get our knickers in a twist".

Let us take the "rules" - or personal opinions dressed up as such - and heave them out the window.

Like sex and religion, it's whatever turns you on...

Best regards,
Alex R.