Cheese with Red Burgundy

Bill,

That said, I do enjoy red Burgundy and Epoisses but I would never eat Epoisses while I was judging 12 Gevrey Chambertins.

Tom T.

You bring the 12 GCs and I'll select the cheese (to eat 'after')!

If you don't really care what effect the food has on the wine, you have a much wider field than if you don't want to do anything to interfere with your enjoyment of the wines.

False choice, false dichotomy, dude. I didn't say I didn't care about wine/food combinations and effects. Au contraire. And what's with the "don't want to do anything to interfere with your enjoyment of the wines" thing?

Fess up, Bill: you have a hermetically sealed wine enjoyment room and isolation chamber don't you?

And what's with the "don't want to do anything to interfere with your enjoyment of the wines" thing?

Guess I've just seen/tasted too many decent wines rendered less enjoyable by bad food combinations, when no food, or in many cases, the right food choice would complement the wines.

I usually taste alone without food and then with food.

And the sealed room isn't for winetasting, it is my listening (and viewing) room where I go to enjoy spinning some LPs or watching something. And the sealing idea is a good one!

[Jenise]

More a consequence of 'what cheese(s) do I want, and what wine(s) do I want' to serve/drink/eat tonight? With general guidelines only. Otherwise, how you gonna have an epiphany?

Isn't that the truth? Well said. Personally, I typically like white burgundy with nearly all cheeses, older red burgs with young piquant cheeses, and younger red burgs with stinkier, more mature cheeses especially if they're blue. But no rules, please. It's more fun to keep experimenting.

Has Formaggio managed to get real Epoisses, made with unpasteurized milk? Officially it can't be imported into the United States, but some manages to find its way in when the producer doesn't fill out the export form properly. Most Epoisses I've seen in the USA is from Berthaut, who use pasteurized milk.

I like red Burgundy with Compte, as well.

-Paul W.

Paul,

The official answer to your question is "no". That's what they'll tell you if you call or ask them that question.

Tom T.

I won't name the shop -- but when we used to drive up to Vermont regularly, we would get off Route 91 at exit 21 and visit a wine and cheese shop. I used to buy unpasteurized cheese there -- I bought some Mont d'Or once and the cheese guy was saying that if the Feds opened a shipment they would soak it with kerosene and start a grilled cheese bonfire. "Au lait cru" of course.

The point I have been trying to make is NOT that there ought to be "rules." I am the sort of guy who will basically move heaven and earth to get a special rare cheese to go with my wonderful wine, and I have to confess that on several occasions over the years, decades, I went to a lot of trouble to get my hands on some perfectly ripe Époisses, only to have it ruin my red Burgundy. The problem is that there is a myth out there that this combination is ideal. And it took me a few instances of making that mistake before I realized that not only was it not ideal, it was quite awful. I personally can't imagine anyone enjoying that cheese with a fine old Burgundy. OK, maybe a fresh young Pinot Noir could handle it. But there are many other wines (WHITE Burgundy for example) that would be so much better.

If you want a ripe Époisses with your 1966 Romanée Conti more power to you. I think you might as well mimic those Hong Kong billionaires who would mix it with Coca Cola and ice.

F

Frank,

We weren't drinking DRC on Sunday, trust me.

Did you ever stop in to the Hermitage on one of those trips in VT? Jim McGovern had quite the wine cellar 20 years ago.

Tom T.

Costco Manchego is a lousy rendition of a great cheese.

There you go again David, making a pronouncement rather than giving an opinion. Manchego is a great cheese. I haven't had the Manchego from Costco, and don't even have a Costco in town, however, in order for it to be lousy, I ask could one identify it as Manchego? I first ate this wonderful cheese in a little restaurant in Seville way back in the late 1960'S and to this date, I have had many examples of lesser Manchego, but never one I would call lousy. I really hope VS chimes in here, and if not maybe one of our other irregular Spanish contributors will.

FWIW the Manchego at Costco is imported from Spain (not "Kirkland Manchego") and for my money it's pretty darn good.

I don't know what Herr Bueker dislikes about it?

[Jenise]

FWIW the Manchego at Costco is imported from Spain (not "Kirkland Manchego") and for my money it's pretty darn good.

I don't know what Herr Bueker dislikes about it?

For some reason, manchego isn't a cheese that I've been taken with so my experience is limited. But I've read many comments about manchegos in general and have reached the conclusion that manchego lovers who know REAL manchego wouldn't find a lot of manchegos worthy. Not that it's not edible or even delicious, it's perhaps just that if you've been spoiled by the real deal then you wouldn't accept a substitute. Kind of like the difference between young generic supermarket cheddar and a two year old Cabot's from Vermont. I took David's comment to mean exactly that.

Personally, I tend to agree with the white wine advocates here. I've tasted cheese with reds that worked so-so, but have yet to find a match that made me sit up and take notice (with the exception of certain dessert wines).

Per Hoke's mention of the red wine and fish stereotype, unless you're talking salmon or similar, I have never had fish with a red of any kind that didn't end up making the wine taste metallic (although I seem to recall a tomato-based bouillabaisse with a red in the Bahamas that went wonderfully together, so maybe if you get the sauce right it's do-able?).

Just my two cents...there are many on this forum who have a lot more experience with this stuff than I, and I'm going to bookmark this thread so I can experiment with some of what has worked for them.

[David M. Bueker]

Costco Manchego is a lousy rendition of a great cheese.

There you go again David, making a pronouncement rather than giving an opinion.

Bob - that is my opinion of Costco's Manchego. I have tasted it, and I have tasted good Manchego. The Costco version is not good at all.

I may have a strong opinion, but it's mine. Must I only have mild opinions now?

I may have a strong opinion, but it's mine. Must I only have mild opinions now?

I think mild opinions go well with Beaujolais Nouveau

[James Roscoe]

Before we descend into bickering and other related foolishness let me point out something that IMNSHO should be a guideline to all. When making a statement such as:

Costco Manchego is a lousy rendition of a great cheese.

You ought to make it clear you are not making a pronouncement, but an opinion. This is easily done by adding the letters IMO or IMHO at the end of your line. While I took the quoted statement as an opinion of the author obviously others took it in a different manner. We ALL need to remember that the internet is an imperfect place for communication. Just my two cents to try to keep the peace. I'm as guilty as the next person. Let's all cut each other a little slack too.

Before we descend into bickering and other related foolishness let me point out something that IMNSHO should be a guideline to all. When making a statement such as:

Costco Manchego is a lousy rendition of a great cheese.

You ought to make it clear you are not making a pronouncement, but an opinion. This is easily done by adding the letters IMO or IMHO at the end of your line. While I took the quoted statement as an opinion of the author obviously others took it in a different manner. We ALL need to remember that the internet is an imperfect place for communication. Just my two cents to try to keep the peace. I'm as guilty as the next person. Let's all cut each other a little slack too.

So "Yellow Tail sucks" would be inappropriate?! Sorry...was at a wedding the other night and that's what they served and, well...it sucked.

[David M. Bueker]

Just my opinion, but having to preface my opinion with "just my opinion" is full of Costco crap.

[James Roscoe]

Just my opinion, but having to preface my opinion with "just my opinion" is full of Costco crap.

David, I'm just tryin' to help.

Bob - that is my opinion of Costco's Manchego. I have tasted it, and I have tasted good Manchego. The Costco version is not good at all.

I may have a strong opinion, but it's mine. Must I only have mild opinions now?

Not at all David, but it might be a good idea to identify. An opinion is one thing and easily accepted. But, a statement that something is crap et al, is not (IMO) an opinion per se, it is rather a flat out statement. I also have strong opinions on some subjects, but I try not to be autocratic in making them known.

[Jenise]

Hey guys--another thing to try to do to make online communications better? Try to assume that the other guy never means any harm and don't take it as if he does.

[David M. Bueker]

I'm not sure when it happened, but at some point I think we all started to take the internet much too seriously. I am boisterous, vocal and opinionated & like who I am. I don't see any great need for change in those characteristics just to tread lightly in internet fora. I'm actually sorry if that bothers folks, but as Popeye said "I am what I am, and that's all that I am."

Hey guys--another thing to try to do to make online communications better? Try to assume that the other guy never means any harm and don't take it as if he does.

Thank you Jenise. I don't mean to be contentious, but sometimes my emotions get the better of my judgement. However not b4 it happens often enough to grate. Again, sorry.

[James Roscoe]

Hey guys--another thing to try to do to make online communications better? Try to assume that the other guy never means any harm and don't take it as if he does.

That is a good idea, but misunderstandings can be avoided by clear communication in the first place. If you are giving an opinion make it clear you are giving an opinion and give it the weight it deserves. No one here is Moses coming down from the mountain or Mr. Parker coming out of his chair in Monkton.

[Jenise]

That is a good idea, but misunderstandings can be avoided by clear communication in the first place. If you are giving an opinion make it clear you are giving an opinion and give it the weight it deserves. No one here is Moses coming down from the mountain or Mr. Parker coming out of his chair in Monkton.

Of course not. I'm just sayin' it's a two way street, that's all. Kinda like what Eleanor Roosevelt meant when she said no one can humiliate you without your permission.