Oregon 2007 Pinot Noir

As noted previously, there have been producers (St Innocent, Dom. Drouhin, Belle Pente, maybe to a lesser extent Patricia Green) that I like. Just talking in generalities.

Going to a previous OT veer, I'm no Pinot Gris expert. But in opposition to what I've said re PN, I find the OR PG fairly competitive in the under $20 market. I'd still probably opt for Trimbach as my favorite under $20 PG, but it's not as obvious. At top level I think Oregon has a way to go before competing with the Hommage a Jeanne Trimbach on the dry side or a ZH Clos Jebsal SGN on the sweet.

If it's immaterial to you, why comment?

[David M. Bueker]

If it's immaterial to you, why comment?

Why so defensive Joseph? Channeling your avatar?

Will you guys please stop squabbling?
I thought Michael and maybe Linda were going to tell us -07 Oregon Pinots that they would recommend. I would very much like to hear about that.
I like Oregon quite a bit, though I readily confess (and have been reminded) that I am not as knowledgeable or sophisticated as many of the people who post here. (I mean this sincerely; I have learned a lot from reading these boards the last few months.) On the low end, in addition to those mentioned, I've liked Lange, Elk's Cove, and a few others that I am not recalling. It's also true that these wines when they make it east are marked up, making them less of a deal. The opposite often happens when European wines move west. But I also have to say, I have liked the mid-range Oregon for Pinot-$25-45 a bottle. Unless you have an established cellar, purchase top quality village level Burgundy, and lay it down, it's very difficult to get something satisfying from an average winestore in most places in this range, or even often by mail. Whereas McKinlay, Bergstrom (until recently), Brooks, and others, yes including some Patricia Green (seems to vary a lot by vineyard and vintage), and even entry-level Beaux Frere (which doesn't), can be both enjoyable and interesting right out of the bottle almost anytime or place. I guess I'm saying I'd be happy to drink Burgundy with any of you (and even some from my own nascent cellar), but hey, in my experience, Oregon ain't all that bad.
And yes, please, tell me more about the current vintage, those who know!

I have already mentionned a few 2007 Pinots. But today I tasted a $13 Pinot from Viridian. This is really good Pinot at a great price. They just changed distributors here locally. I actually think that it might be better than their 2006. They also have a different winemaker. Anyone else taste this ?

If the great $11 Oregon PN exists but we never taste it because the producer sells out and isn't interested in their wine "traveling", what difference does it make to me as a consumer?

It's not that the producer is "not interested" in the wine "traveling". It's not even that there isn't enough availability. It's the fact that distributors are only going to handle those with name recognition and those may not be the best representatives of any wine growing region's best.

And it makes absolutely no difference to you as a consumer if you are unable to obtain the wines. It only makes a difference when you become a commentator on any given wine region.

I want to throw another vote for Belle Pente as one of the few exciting OR PN producers from the perspective of an East Coast Pinot drinker. People talk about Belle Pente as only for Burgundy lovers, but I think their pricing is especially fair and they're one of the few Oregon producers with a compelling Villages-type entry level bottling at $20-25.

I also like Cristom's non-estate cuvee, I think its called the Mt. Jefferson. It's consistently got lots of floral and orange peel notes which give it an added layer of complexity compared to its peers. It's also readily available in half, which is a nice perk. I've never had any of Cristom's single-vineyard wines, though.

I think that in order for many of these newer producers to survive in this economy and the 2007 vintage, they will need to venture more to out-of-state markets. I don't think they will have any other choice. Here locally, we are easily up to over 500 labels or brands. I probably hear or taste a new one every week. Then throw in Pinots from other areas like New Zealand, Argentina, and Chile and you add even more choices to the mix. It never seems to get boring in this business. I just try to find the best wines for the best prices for my customers.

Dale, Burgundy Wine Company carries some Oregon Pinot Noirs. I don't know if you ever shop there but they might be willing to open a couple for tastings.

I have only had experience with one vintage of Torii Mor "Deux Verres" but on that basis ordered a couple bottles of the recent vintage. I like both Torii Mor's basic Pinot Noir in most vintages (currently $29 a bottle at the winery) and the more expensive "Deux Verres" which sells for $45 from the winery, but that is a case where I felt the extra price was fair for the quality of the product. I do not feel that way about some of the Oregon Pinots priced at $40-$60. I liked the Chehalem 3Vineyard Pinot ($32) but am unwilling to pay $44 for their single-vineyard Pinots. Scott Paul is one I have heard a lot of good things about and would like to try more often. Owen Roe is another. The O'Reilly line from Owen Roe is considered to be a great value and that was backed up by a Northwest store that included it in their best value Oregon Pinot Noirs but I have yet to try it.

David, agree re Belle Pente. With both you and Jason recommending Cristom, I'll definitely put on my list. I see Martin Brothers (near Columbia) has the half bottles, never shopped there, will ask friend in neighborhood re storage (they're 03s).
Jane, either I unsubscribed or BWC dropped me from their list for never buying. Prices seem to be so high there I never look anymore.

David, agree re Belle Pente. With both you and Jason recommending Cristom, I'll definitely put on my list. I see Martin Brothers (near Columbia) has the half bottles, never shopped there, will ask friend in neighborhood re storage (they're 03s).
Jane, either I unsubscribed or BWC dropped me from their list for never buying. Prices seem to be so high there I never look anymore.

I'm a Columbia law student. Storage at Martin Bros is not acceptable to my standards, and I'm relatively lax. Be forewarned.

Columbus Circle Wines has carried the Cristom halves in the past, and I think their storage while not ideal is far, far, FAR better.

(I like Martin Bros for l-need-a-bottle-now purchases, and the guy who runs the store is incredibly nice and has a bizzarely well-stocked (if overpriced) store, but its not a place to buy older vintages.)

Thanks for warning. I have seen Martin pop up on Winesearcher a lot lately, so they have some wines that I like, but certainly no point in trying 3 year halves if storage is suspect.

Along the same lines as this thread, Oregon Wine Press has 3 articles that are related to Oregon Pinot Noir, worth a read.
http://www.oregonwinepress.com
The Price of Pinot
More takes on economic Times
High Quality Fuels Demand
All interesting in thier own right.
L

I don't know nuttin about Pinot Noir or any other wine except claret. But I had a glass of cheapo Blue Moon Oregon Pinot (probably about $15 a bottle in a store) at the Morrisville, North Carolina Bonefish Grill chain restaurant tonight; and I have to tell you, it went wonderfully with grilled Grouper with simple lemon butter sauce. (Innocuous haricot vert and rice on the side.) A Bordeaux wouldn't have worked; a glass of California Chardonnay I also drank didn’t do anything for the fish – clashed actually. The Pinot nose was great, even had a little perfume; the body very velvety; but the finish was short and had nothing but licorice to talk about. I have nothing against licorice, though.

Along the same lines as this thread, Oregon Wine Press has 3 articles that are related to Oregon Pinot Noir, worth a read.
http://www.oregonwinepress.com
The Price of Pinot
More takes on economic Times
High Quality Fuels Demand
All interesting in thier own right.
L

Nice articles Linda, very enlightening as well. Also, that article on the risotto gone bad, wasn't bad either. LMAO I truly did!

Hey! Whatever happened to this thread? I want to read Linda's list.

Although ....

I've tasted a lot of the Oregon 2007 pinot noirs. I've dumped out a lot of bottles. But I've found that some that were borderline undrinkable a few months ago have become decent with a few added months in the cellar. Perhaps they will continue to improve.

This kind of gets to my first point: Tasting a wine is tasting that particular bottle at that particular point in time. This dynamic process undermines "declarations" of crappiness ... or greatness, and many of the wines from the vintage aren't even released yet.

My second point: To my palate, many, many of the 2007 Oregon pinot noirs - at all price points - exhibit what I call a "fight the vintage" character. They are over extracted, suffering effects of extended maceration and added enzymes in an effort to achieve a heartiness that never should have been. This resulted in a peculiar taste - possibly from enthusiastic acid additions to counter unbalanced pH - which gives a very unpleasant aftertaste .... at least to me. I've stood next to people at trade tastings who declare a wine that I can't expectorate quickly enough to be "wonderfully full bodied" and "proving Kramer wrong" ... meanwhile the elegant, pretty wine is condemned as "thin" or "light" ...

<sigh> ... it really is a question of taste.

Hey! Whatever happened to this thread? I want to read Linda's list.

Although ....

I've tasted a lot of the Oregon 2007 pinot noirs. I've dumped out a lot of bottles. But I've found that some that were borderline undrinkable a few months ago have become decent with a few added months in the cellar. Perhaps they will continue to improve.

This kind of gets to my first point: Tasting a wine is tasting that particular bottle at that particular point in time. This dynamic process undermines "declarations" of crappiness ... or greatness, and many of the wines from the vintage aren't even released yet.

My second point: To my palate, many, many of the 2007 Oregon pinot noirs - at all price points - exhibit what I call a "fight the vintage" character. They are over extracted, suffering effects of extended maceration and added enzymes in an effort to achieve a heartiness that never should have been. This resulted in a peculiar taste - possibly from enthusiastic acid additions to counter unbalanced pH - which gives a very unpleasant aftertaste .... at least to me. I've stood next to people at trade tastings who declare a wine that I can't expectorate quickly enough to be "wonderfully full bodied" and "proving Kramer wrong" ... meanwhile the elegant, pretty wine is condemned as "thin" or "light" ...

<sigh> ... it really is a question of taste.

Hi Joe, I would like to be the first to issue to you a big WLDG <b>WELCOME</B> to the forum. I see that you are ITB on the retail side in Oregon. I am a big proponent of Linda's Stone Wolf wines, and try to get some of each vintage. I don't think she has bottled her 2007, but she says it is going to be better than 2007 is generally advertised, so you can bet I will get a case of it. In case you haven't already, and still can, you really need to try her 2007 pinot gris. I have 2 cases of it, and honestly wish I had more! Again welcome to the forum.

Linda and others,

My interest in the 2007 vintage of Oregon Pinot Noir is rather acute, as I am finalizing my winery visit lists for the Memorial Day weekend. I relocated to the Northwest, in part, to be closer to the wine regions of Oregon and Washington. Oregon Pinot is much cheaper without sales tax and shipping! I have not been to Stone Wolf on prior visits, but intend to this time around.

I was there over Thanksgiving and found the 07's I tasted then to be very variable. The good ones were very good, but others were not so good. That was not the case in 06, when most were good - though a little too California-ish.

Linda, any advice for me?

Cheers!

[Jenise]

Ray! You were in Texas, right? Well welcome to my part of the world.

Ray! You were in Texas, right? Well welcome to my part of the world.

That's me. Finally made the move. My biggest surprise was how much I love some of those little (and some big ones too) wineries in Woodinville that truck the Red Mountain fruit over the mountains.

I have one more specific complaint: I think the Oregon scene demonstrates that there is such at thing as excessive dedication to terroir. It seems common knowledge that you can get more money from a single vineyard wine. The problem is, when the vintage isn't so great, it takes more grapes from more locations to make something that will be palatable. I think the Willamette has done a disservice to itself by making the single-vineyard wine the be-all and end-all. Of course, I can also make the argument the other way: The '07 A to Z, which is not site-specific, is still a lesser wine than previous vintages. Maybe there are some years when you just can't win. And, of course, sales of A to Z continue unabated: No matter the actual quality, people still demand the stuff. And believe me, if people want it, I'm going to do my best to have it for them, regardless of my own opinion. (That's how you can tell I'm really a retailer )"Drink what you like, like what you drink."Dave Erickson
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Hey Dave,
First I will address your thoughts above - you somewhat nailed what I think is a big issue for Oregon as a whole. In 1992 there were only 75 wineries, today there are over 400 and I have NO idea how many custom folks or brands.. when you are hot you are HOT. However, since I entered this business for a living in 1996 ( I was raised in a family where Dad was ITB, but I dont count sipping as a kid ) we were still small, very supportive of each other, we had to be and our hardest issue was trying to explain across the country, OREGON was second down on the left on the map. Well, over the years I have seen the rest of the country now indeed knows where Oregon is, can pronounce it - however we have done ourselves a bit of dis-service along the way. Not only do folks have to know where Oregon is, they have to learn to spell and pronounce "willamette" ( think willamette damnit )... so we finally get this one known and we fragment ourselves even further with several new AVA's... Dundee Hills, McMinnville, Eola-Amity Hills - Hell I lived in portland for almost 40 years and if you asked me where Amity was, it would be the stupid looking face smiling back at you. Along the way, production goes up, quality goes up as we learn to work with Mother Nature and of course each year as new folks enter the pricing goes up. I have watched this in awe, in particular the 1997 and 2003 vintages. I kept thinking the wines will be priced somewhat as in Europe, based on quality. Not true, the following 2 vintages, 1998 and 2004 were stellar, yet short, therefore with demand growing and yields down - up went the prices.
I am a firm believer of making the best wine I can and if that means no vineyard designate, so be it. I owe it to my customers to give them the best I have and not suck up to some grower or myself to feed his/her ego. I have no higher price on vineyard designates, but some of the local "artists" feel that because they limited themselves to one site, that makes the wine worth more. Sorry, I just don't get that - call me the Fred Franzia of the Oregon Wine Industry sharpening her pencil... its all about satisfaction with the end consumer. That same consumer that is so happy they tell thier friends, and gee, come back and buy more !
I incubate small producers in my winery, take them from a dream to a producer, and often see the difficulty in trying to make the best wine because of limitations of scale and sources. I liken it to a kitchen that has nothing but salt and pepper for seasonings, it's a bit hard to be creative and "add" what that dish is lacking. Sometimes the simple salt & pepper makes it pop, sometimes it's still lacking the "zing". That is where producers that have a vast array of barrells/sites/AVAs to select from can often times create the more complex, customer friendly wine. i.e, larger producers, A-Z, Erath, Ponzi ( you get my idea, moderately priced as well ).. By the way, I love the folks behind A-Z, namely Sam and Michael - two very talented individuals. I run on average 200-+/- BBLS a year and am currently working on a blend, and cannot imagine not having a full pantry of ingredients to select from.
I suspect and have for some time that we will see a correction, and not necessarily due to the separation and confusion of our new AVA's, but in part due to the economy and quite frankly, the more people learn about pinot noir and thier likes, the more the reasonable producers will shine. The over-priced wines will take a second seat to those that folks find pleasing, fairly priced and consistent in style.... thats my hope anyway.
Are there places for the Domaine Serene, Archery Summit, DDO, Ken Wright (Ken probably should not be on this list, he rocks !), Tori Mor, and the other 200 new producers of >$30 pinot noirs.. Yes. But is that place for dinner daily, not so much. I am a bubble Queen and when the occasion calls for it, out comes the champagne, it's just not everyday or even weekly.
My mantra, drink what you like and don't listen to anyone that says because it costs alot means it is good.
Cheers !
Linda
PS, As soon as I find a moment, honest, I will post our notes on the 2007 Pinot Noirs, there are some jewels out there !

My guess is thatwe are actually well over 500 different brands and labels. In the last couple of vintages there are probably 1100-1200 different bottlings of Pinot Noir. I get people all the time ask me why I don't carry this brand or that one. In some cases they only sell direct and are not yet set up in our receiving system. Kroger requires that anyone we buy from must get a vendor number issued to them. This allows them to get paid when they deliver their wine. For my store sales of over $30 wines across the board are off from a year ago by at least 70%. But my overall sales are still up over last year due to the volume. Alot of this has to do with many people not eating out as much. So far my best regular level 2007 Oregon Pinots that I have found are Beacon Hill, Coeur de Terre, Witness Tree, Four Graces, Cardwell Hill, and Foris. From what I have been seeing, as long as the retail price is below $20 there is still lots of movement. There are still many in that price range that I have not yet tasted. I have asked my reps to bring them by for tasting. Linda, I have not yet tasted yours but I do sell it. I am looking forward to seeing your list. I think for many Oregon wineries to survive they must have some out of state markets. I certainly expect to see some price adjustments.