Oregon 2007 Pinot Noir

I am in retail here in Oregon. I have tasted now over 70 2007 Oregon Pinot Noirs. Here is my take. Most of them I feel are good wines based on what they were given to work with. As I taste the 2007 wines I think most people did a nice job. The next question I have to ask myself is does it live up to its price. When they are over $25 retail I don't think they measure up compared to previous vintages.

Michael,
I'm not so surre that what you are trying to say is really related to a vintage or the 2007 vintage in particular in Oregon. In my mind, are most of these wines worth $25 or more ?
I have watched our industry grow, from 75 wineries in 1992 to almost 400 today. I have seen anyone with enough cash and guts flock to our valley, either hire a gun to make wine for them, so they can tell thier pals they own a winery, buy a piece of dirt, hire a gun to make the wine or on the rare occasion want to create thier own wine, simply for the satisfaction, challenge and reward. The third option is how most of the old folks in our industry began and still are... they fought the battles of convincing folks that Oregon could make lovely wine, this was after they explained for years, where Oregon was.
I probably should not say this, but will anyway... Several Oregon wines are grossly overpriced for the quality. I think too many people are riding on the reputaion that Oregon can produce great wines, without concern with the quality in the bottle.. however, the one thing I see in common, in particular with the newer folks, is the HUGE price points placed on the wines, and the quality just not being there. I see a tremendous difference in the established wineries vs the newer ones, with both pricing and quality... maybe the older folks KNOW you have to give thier best each and every year and price accordingly.
When times were good, I suppose it was easy to sell that $25-40 bottle of wine, simply because it was from Oregon. Those days are over, and quite frankly I am happy for it. If we are to continue to be known as a premier wine producer, it's the wine in the bottle that counts. As winemakers, we have an obligation to our consumers to price what is in the bottle fairly, not simply based on our own ego or overhead.
I tell customers all the time in the tasting room.... Wine drinking is not a snob sport, please don't determine what YOU like based on the price. If you find a wine you like for $ 8, that's all that matters,,, YOU like it. Just because it is more expensive, does not mean YOU will like it better.
I think in the overall, the results of our economy will make the consumer smarter, and make the winemakers work harder to deliver the great Oregon wines at a reasonable price that the consumer deserves.
We are just bottling most of our 2007 reds, and I have to say, they are much closer to what I prefer in a pinot, subtle and gentle, no huge alcohol fruit bombs. Keep tasting !
Linda

I have been selling Oregon wines for 25+ years. I still remember when we only had about 12 wineries. I have certainly enjoyed promoting Oregon wines. I still have fun doing that. I tasted a Beacon Hill 2007 Pinot this week that was excellent for under $20. I also disagree very much when Matt Kramer a while back in our local paper basically said to skip 2007 Oregon Pinots. I am not a fan of the overextracted and heavily oaked wines. I love to see balance. We also have over 500 different labels or brands from Oregon. Many seem to be only selling their wines here in Oregon. This is going to be very hard given our economic times. I certainly hope for the best.

[Jenise]

I have been selling Oregon wines for 25+ years. I still remember when we only had about 12 wineries. I have certainly enjoyed promoting Oregon wines. I still have fun doing that. I tasted a Beacon Hill 2007 Pinot this week that was excellent for under $20. I also disagree very much when Matt Kramer a while back in our local paper basically said to skip 2007 Oregon Pinots. I am not a fan of the overextracted and heavily oaked wines. I love to see balance. We also have over 500 different labels or brands from Oregon. Many seem to be only selling their wines here in Oregon. This is going to be very hard given our economic times. I certainly hope for the best.

Michael and Linda, since you're both "on the ground" in Oregon, I'd love to see a list of what each of you thinks are Oregon's best wineries--think Bordeaux's growth system. Who should be the candidates for First Growth?

[David M. Bueker]

I just find it refreshing to have a retailer tell us that not everything is a screaming value.

[Jenise]

I just find it refreshing to have a retailer tell us that not everything is a screaming value.

Ditto. And as a retailer, he might prefer not to answer my question. I was really just wondering how many of the old guard like Archery Summit and Ponzi, for instance, stand up to popular newcomers in they eyes of those who have had a front row seat.

I've been a fan of Amity since 1980. I think they have been fairly consistant over the years. Always enjoyed the winemakers reserve pinot and pick some up every year.

I will come up with a list over the weekend. I will try to put it into perspective with what I look for in Pinots. I visited New Zealand several years ago. I took in 2 cases of Oregon wines and had arranged to sit down with lots of winery people in both Martinborough and Marlborough. I brought Oregon wines and they brought New Zealand. It was great. One of the first things I had to make clear is that I brought a representitive assortment, not just my favorites style wise. We have some excellent Pinot Noirs here in Oregon. But there are numerous styles that I think you can group them into. I love my job. I get to taste at least 75-80 wines as reps bring them by my store. This does not count trade tastings.

This has been a great thread for myself and also our team. In case you haven't noticed this particular topic is one that is near and dear to my heart.
I should start by saying a couple of things for folks that don't know me.. Yes, I am in the business, also a Realtor that keeps informed of vineyard aquisitions, and in special situations have been hired to develop, consult and manage sites, participates in some sales, and yes, I am also one of the "hired guns" I so eloquently referred to in my earlier post. We are very selective about who we choose to help in our winery as they enter our industry, with the first criteria being, check your ego at the door, along with stern warnings that this is not a game, will take much more cash than you think, is hard hard hard work, extremely time consuming and unless you delevop a decent marketing plan,,,, forget it. We are also very brutal about the distribution channel, gate-keepers, channel partners and the lack of pedigree on thier part and that this indeed is not an instance of "Build it and they will come". (This is probably the hardest obsticle to overcome, as most of our folks are accomplished in thier own right, and assume due to that, the sales will come easy) And on the rare occasion they still opt to move on with the plan to create a brand, even after the gloom and doom speech, we limit our Clients so that each and everyone gets very personal attention, is provided information at each step and not charged so much for winemaking that they will never succeed... Our thought is, if our "Family" of wineries is doing well, our "Family" is doing well.... so that brings us to today.
When we first began, there was a winemaker that I like to say took me from being a baby to a toddler in this industry. He was one of the most humble people I had ever met, and still is, even though he has moved on to be one of washingtons largest wineries "Commanders in Chief". This was quite a while ago, probably before the biggest hype in Oregon began, but I know in my heart that it's not about how cool we think we are, it's more about how we can make our customer/guest feel about thier decision to purchase one of our wines. Now it's my turn to give back.
Now today, I had two of my custom folks in town and relayed to them this discussion,, so we set up a blind tasting. I had several bottles of 2006 & 2007 pinot noirs from our valley plus I called another winery that also produces for others and he handed over another 6 or so bottles. We tasted blind and plan on doing so over the next 2 days, with some interesting results. I won't name names yet, but it was very interesting to see that the the clear winner of the 2007 flight was one of our custom people (Dion Vineyards) which was a youngster, being bottled just a bit over a month ago. A bit of background on Dion, they have been grape farmers for years, with some of Oregons oldest vines, being sold to the likes of Ponzi & Erath over the years, and now Kevin the boy child has opted to take the family farm to the next level.. and a nice job he did !
So, in short, we plan on doing blind tastings for a couple more days, and will report our results along with price points at that time. I am thinking we may find some similarities based on today if it holds true for a vintage, but also some wines that are un-expected and hopefully at price points and production levels that make sense.

Jenise, in response to your question and this thread,,, do you really want thoughts on top producers or best producers at fair prices ? If it's top producers, heck all you have to do is look at winespectator and read Domaine Insane .. oops, Serene ads, they are the TOP, just ask them And, are we talking only about Pinot Noir, or all wines, as Oregon can make some outstanding varietals that are not the finicky grape.
On that note, I was a judge recently at a wine event, and found it interesting that the best wines were not Pinot Noir, but the Syrahs from our warmer Climate areas.. and consistently Zerba Cellars rocked ( I have no interest in them, but had one for dinner a bit ago - WOW -, and found them outstanding during the blind judging)
Thanks for listening and Michael if you want to come on over and taste with us, just let me know, we'd love to have you !
Linda

Right on, Linda!

I got jammed up this week (sounds like you've been busy, anyway) - hope you'll be in residence next week?

I want to second Linda on the syrah thing, too. Even though I am not that happy about her opening her mouth about it. Several producers are making excellent wines with good price points - up to now.

do you really want thoughts on top producers or best producers at fair prices ?

Wonderful post Linda. Thank you. I'm sure your question was rhetorical but just in case, I'm confident Jenise meant best producers and fair prices, and certain that everyone here is interested in hearing about good wines from Oregon regardless of the grape. I look forward to more on this.

In my mind, are most of these wines worth $25 or more ?

With all due respect, individuals expressing their opinion about what something is worth has short legs. The next guy might have a completely different point of view. I wonder if it would be possible for Oregon wine drinkers to unite in some way and pay for a few billboard ads that said, "there isn't an Oregon Pinot Noir worth more than $25; don't be a fool and pay more." Maybe such a campaign could have an impact on pricing.

With all due respect to you, too, Covert. Some of the big producers here are so full of themselves I don't believe they could cram a single canape down their throats. They would shrug - and as long as those with big bucks will pay, they'll demand.

[David M. Bueker]

I'm not a big consumer of Oregon Pinot Noir, but I drink my fair share. I still see all sorts of price points, with good and bad examples at both ends of hte spectrum. I know they have been touted here many times, but I think St. Innocent is one of the very best (and not just in Oregon) at making very fine, less expensive wines (e.g. the Villages Cuvee Pinot, not to mention the Pinot Blanc and Gris) as well as making vineyard-specific wines that are not outrageously priced at all. I'm in their club, and also lucky enough to have a local retailer that stocks some of the wines (saving me shipping costs on re-orders). I haven't gotten into their "Special Selection" wines, but I am so happy with the regular vineyard bottlings that I see no need to go up another level.

One of the guys in my tasting group pours a lot of Oregon wines. Panther Creek has been good (and reasonable value), Ken Wright has been generally disappointing (and expensive), and Beaux Freres has never really rung my chimes.

With all due respect to you, too, Covert. Some of the big producers here are so full of themselves I don't believe they could cram a single canape down their throats. They would shrug - and as long as those with big bucks will pay, they'll demand.

I didn't know you lived in Oregon, Chef. I probably did know, but forgot, as I have the retention span of a gnat, assuming they don't have much. Are you a fan of the pinots? If I had a few hundred years to live, so I could give up a night to something other than claret, I would drink an Oregon Pinot or two. They are fabulous with salmon, at least.

Did you ever meet Ken Kesey?

--Don't give a (sic) inch.

Have any of you fine folk had a Cathy PN? I got a 2005 from the closeout bin recently, but haven't opened it yet. It was priced at 19.99, down from 28.99. I'm thinking of opening it this weekend, as I noticed this evening that the store had at least two more bottles at the same price. If I like it, I'm going back.
Tonight's purchase was a tawny port and a Glenfiddich 15-yo single malt.

With all due respect to you, too, Covert. Some of the big producers here are so full of themselves I don't believe they could cram a single canape down their throats. They would shrug - and as long as those with big bucks will pay, they'll demand.

I didn't know you lived in Oregon, Chef. I probably did know, but forgot, as I have the retention span of a gnat, assuming they don't have much. Are you a fan of the pinots? If I had a few hundred years to live, so I could give up a night to something other than claret, I would drink an Oregon Pinot or two. They are fabulous with salmon, at least.

Did you ever meet Ken Kesey?

--Don't give a (sic) inch.

I moved here two years ago and have had the pleasure of meeting some wonderful winemakers. I have gotten more into pinots more than I though I ever would. My pre-Oregon favorites over the years have nearly all been Bordeauxs and Rhones.

I just returned from a blind tasting of eleven 2007 Oregon pinot noirs - with several Oregon winemakers. The results were not surprising to us, but probably would be to the wine buying public. I believe Linda will be posting about the tasting over the weekend.

In a word, though, yes, I like them. And they work with more than salmon. No, I haven't met Ken Kesey, but I admire him as a writer and would like to.

Have any of you fine folk had a Cathy PN? I got a 2005 from the closeout bin recently, but haven't opened it yet. It was priced at 19.99, down from 28.99. I'm thinking of opening it this weekend, as I noticed this evening that the store had at least two more bottles at the same price. If I like it, I'm going back.
Tonight's purchase was a tawny port and a Glenfiddich 15-yo single malt.

Hang onto that scotch and I'll definitely stop by on my way through Oklahoma.

Have any of you fine folk had a Cathy PN? I got a 2005 from the closeout bin recently, but haven't opened it yet. It was priced at 19.99, down from 28.99. I'm thinking of opening it this weekend, as I noticed this evening that the store had at least two more bottles at the same price. If I like it, I'm going back.
Tonight's purchase was a tawny port and a Glenfiddich 15-yo single malt.

Hang onto that scotch and I'll definitely stop by on my way through Oklahoma.

Any time, Joseph!

At the risk of getting flamed, I have to say that I don't buy or cellar a lot of Oregon wines. I often like Oregon wines, and the Willamette climate seems to lend itself to wines I like stylistically (especially PN). But entry prices are daunting, and that's not a very recent thing. When I first got interested in Oregon wines (2000-2002 I'd say, vintages from late 90s) the dollar was strong. I could find basic Bourgognes from say Chevillon, Gouges, Bachelet, Lafarge, Roumier for $10-18. But entry level Oregon wines from good producers were $20. Hmm, wine I already knew I liked producer, or spend a little more on a crapshoot? So dollar weakened, Burg prices have gone up a lot, but I'd still say entry level in Oregon is as much as my trusted producers in Burgundy, so little incentive to try.

I do like OR PN, and have some St Innocent, Belle Pente, and Domaine Drouhin. There are other producers ( Patricia Green, etc) that I have had some luck with and might try in a restaurant. But others start at $45. I'm not experimenting at those prices.

Actually, all of this talk of Oregon is really Willamette, right? Any opinions of other Oregon areas? I've enjoyed Foris from Rogue, but that's about it.

Thanks for thoughts about vintage, and would like to see some suggested producers from people who know a lot more about OR wine than me.

Dale, I am in agreement with you about these price points. I am not the only one out here who is, either.

Yes, Willamette=Pinot Noir. But, there are some terrific wines from this valley at very good price points. I am going to hold my tongue until Linda has her say, though. It will be forthcoming.

In my mind, are most of these wines worth $25 or more ?

With all due respect, individuals expressing their opinion about what something is worth has short legs. The next guy might have a completely different point of view. I wonder if it would be possible for Oregon wine drinkers to unite in some way and pay for a few billboard ads that said, "there isn't an Oregon Pinot Noir worth more than $25; don't be a fool and pay more." Maybe such a campaign could have an impact on pricing.

Covert,
I don't recall meeting you but must have if you know I am short. However, I may be short in height, but tall in history and experience in the Oregon wine industry,. I don't recall ever saying that there is not an Oregon Pinot Noir that is worth more than $ 25.00, and really don't think such a campaign would have an impact on pricing. My thought was and still is, with all due respect of course - No matter what the price point a winery places on thier wine,, the quality and customer satisfaction must somewhere intersect, therefore defining what Oregon wines offer and the perception of quality and value a consumer should expect. A couple of things are accomplished when the previous occurs, people can count on Oregon to produce fine wines overall and have thier decisions validated when they consume and are pleased with thier choice ( and price point ).
As I stated earlier, we have been tasting over the last two days, with another day to follow tomorrow and will try to post over the weekend. We were lucky today as Chef Carey showed up, adding one more voice to our experienced lot ( Three winemakers today, with our winemaking team as well ). So far after the two days and almost 30 wines, I am finding my initial hypothesis to hold true, with full data to be posted over the weekend. That theory being, that price and quality do not always relate. For example, we had a $60.00 bottle from what some would say is a premier willamette valley producer, vineyard designated as one of Oregon's highly sought after fruit - It was last in the blind tasting, technically flawed, yet commercially released... but was in a huge bottle and expensive so that must make it a great wine ?
This has been a terrific learning experience for myself, staff and neighborhood winemakers, in particular to the 2007 vintage. One of my comments today was that given what Mother Nature gave us in '07, and no matter how quickly the press was to toss this vintage under the bus - the winemakers stood up to the challenge and created some beautiful wines, not only the Pinot Noirs, but many of the whites as well.
Oh, and Covert, this is just MY opinion and that is one thing that I will always be entitled to, regardless if the next "guy" has a completely different point of view. It's about experience, personal taste, common sense.... and again, realizing this is just grape juice. We are not finding the cure for cancer, creating a car that requires no fuel, or implementing a plan for world peace,,, we create a product that we hope makes people feel good, something they can create memories with and if we can make them smile along the way, then our job has been done well.
Cheers
Linda

Rereading my post, I realized I didn't emphasize that I wasn't talking about pricing in general, but entry pricing. Oregon's top wines are comparatively inexpensive. That doesn't mean they are worth it- in every region I know there are expensive wines that aren't worth it, and are of lower quality of many lower priced wines. But in Burgundy (to keep to PN), there have historically been fairly well-priced entry level wines, the Bourgognes, Choreys, Cotes de Nuits Villages, and even village level bottlings from the prestige communes. One could try the Lafarge Bourgogne, love it, decide to spend a bit more for the village Volnay, then the Volnay VS, then to start thinking about splurging for the Clos des Chenes. My complaint is that so many of the Oregon wineries seem to start at $30+, and that is not conducive to me sticking my toe in the water.

I wish wine was cheaper. But I am obsessive, and do sometimes spend $50-100 for a bottle of wine (it's all I spend money on, $10 at the thrift shop is my limit for a coat). But it's usually a wine that I have a lot of experience with the winery, and few OR wineries give me a chance to spend $15-20 for an initial taste.