WTN: Awkward Stages?

Andrew Will Merlot Pepper Bridge Vineyard, Walla Walla, Washington Maybe winemaker Chris Camarda was wise to jettison his lineup of single vineyard Merlots a few years ago and instead make single vineyard Bordeaux blends. Or is this formerly fruity, oaky Merlot just sleeping? Now although it's intense there's no complexity, and while the oak is less dominant than it was a few years ago it adds nothing to the wine. I'll try this one again in a couple of years but I'm not optimistic. Snapshot opinion: Merlot soup.

2002 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Kabinett Under the customary JJ Prum layer of sulphur dioxide there's green apple, a bit of citrus and some stone, but not a whole lot going on right now. Maybe I'll hang a sign outside the wine's bin saying Out to Lunch, May Be Back in 2011.

Under the customary JJ Prum layer of sulphur dioxide there's green apple, a bit of citrus and some stone, but not a whole lot going on right now. Maybe I'll hang a sign outside the wine's bin saying Out to Lunch, May Be Back in 2011.

A question for the chemists on the board: since sulphur dioxide (SO2) is supposedly odorless, is the sulphur that we can smell hydrogen sulphide (H2S)? The kind of sulphur one often finds in young riesling is neither odorless (of course) nor akin to rotten eggs, hence the question...

[David M. Bueker]

I had the 2002 and 2004 kabinett last year with Katharina Prum & the 2002 was starting to show some maturity. Of course that was from bottles that had lingered at retail (in good conditions, but not always 55 degrees).

Under the customary JJ Prum layer of sulphur dioxide there's green apple, a bit of citrus and some stone, but not a whole lot going on right now. Maybe I'll hang a sign outside the wine's bin saying Out to Lunch, May Be Back in 2011.

A question for the chemists on the board: since sulphur dioxide (SO2) is supposedly odorless, is the sulphur that we can smell hydrogen sulphide (H2S)? The kind of sulphur one often finds in young riesling is neither odorless (of course) nor akin to rotten eggs, hence the question...

Oswaldo,

I'm not a chemist, but an ex-winemaker.

Yours is a truly good question, the likely answer of which is H2S reduction because of a number of factors, including residual sulfur on the pressed grapes from vineyard sprays, yeast selection, additions of SO2, and overall oxygen starvation.

A nose tingling gunpowder-like quality most identifies free SO2 in wine--more of a sensation than an aroma.

I should add that you can have both in a wine: SO2 gun powder and H2S rotten eggs.

A question for the chemists on the board: since sulphur dioxide (SO2) is supposedly odorless, is the sulphur that we can smell hydrogen sulphide (H2S)? The kind of sulphur one often finds in young riesling is neither odorless (of course) nor akin to rotten eggs, hence the question...

Oswaldo,
I thought that sulphur was fairly odorless, but SO2 has a distinctive odor. Here's one of many references I found in seconds:
http://books.google.com/books?id=6Sq_EE ... &ct=result

Dr Lipton is on vacation, but hopefully will peek in.

A question for the chemists on the board: since sulphur dioxide (SO2) is supposedly odorless, is the sulphur that we can smell hydrogen sulphide (H2S)? The kind of sulphur one often finds in young riesling is neither odorless (of course) nor akin to rotten eggs, hence the question...

Oswaldo,
I thought that sulphur was fairly odorless, but SO2 has a distinctive odor. Here's one of many references I found in seconds:
http://books.google.com/books?id=6Sq_EE ... &ct=result

Dr Lipton is on vacation, but hopefully will peek in.

The gunpowder-like sensation that I refer to above is that distinct odor when free (unbound) SO2 rises from a glass of wine. When SO2 is added to wine much of it becomes bound in solution--the part that remains free is what becomes airborne to our noses and reminiscent of gunpowder or a struck match.

Quite often, however, people refer to rotten egg or rubber smells in wine as SO2 and that is not exactly the case.

I had the 2002 and 2004 kabinett last year...from bottles that had lingered at retail...

It never ceases to amaze me how slowly some of these great wines sell.

(Dee Vine recently sent out offers of 40-50% off case purchases of the 2006 Grunhauser spatleses which makes me think they have way more left than I would have guessed. Although Grunhaus does make a bunch of wine).

I guess we Adoring Fans are only a limited slice of the wine-buying public!

Andrew Will Merlot Pepper Bridge Vineyard, Walla Walla, Washington ...Or is this formerly fruity, oaky Merlot just sleeping?...Snapshot opinion: Merlot soup.

I'm not familiar with this particular wine, so it might just be sleeping. But I have drunk a lot of West Coast Merlot, and only one of them sticks out in my mind as having gone through a slumber phase (Sebastiani's "Town" bottling, sadly no longer produced). IMHO, very ripe Merlot tends to be soupy. The grape needs either some dry grippy tannins for structure or restraint in both ripeness and vinification.

A question for the chemists on the board: since sulphur dioxide (SO2) is supposedly odorless, is the sulphur that we can smell hydrogen sulphide (H2S)? The kind of sulphur one often finds in young riesling is neither odorless (of course) nor akin to rotten eggs, hence the question...

Oswaldo,
I thought that sulphur was fairly odorless, but SO2 has a distinctive odor. Here's one of many references I found in seconds:
http://books.google.com/books?id=6Sq_EE ... &ct=result

Dr Lipton is on vacation, but hopefully will peek in.

I thought whenever people referred to sulfur as an additive they always meant sulfur dioxide. I didn't think anyone ever added sulfur by itself...

I thought whenever people referred to sulfur as an additive they always meant sulfur dioxide. I didn't think anyone ever added sulfur by itself...

I think that's correct. I was just commenting on elemental sulfur because I thought that's maybe where the confusion about odorlessness began. SO2 is known for the struck match smell, which is what Charles meant by "customary JJ Prum layer of sulphur dioxide" and what most of us mean when we say sulphur re wines.

[bJJ Prum Redux.][/b] A second report on my 2004 JJ Prum WS. After a night in the fridge in a 375 tonight it was in fine form, with plenty of fruit and minerals and a healthy slab of stone. Guess it just needed air, but I'll wait a couple of years before attacking the rest of the case.

And I agree with the Miller theory. Says he, "very ripe Merlot tends to be soupy." And I don't think things get any better with time. Our Washington Merlots seem to be especially soupy after several years in the bottle.

"very ripe Merlot tends to be soupy." And I don't think things get any better with time. Our Washington Merlots seem to be especially soupy after several years in the bottle.

Just for contrast, I have had some moderately ripe and fairly tannic Merlot that developed nicely for 5-10 Years - the aforementioned Town vineyard, Keenan, Beringer Howell Mountain, Turnbull and Matanzas Creek.

(Dee Vine recently sent out offers of 40-50% off case purchases of the 2006 Grunhauser spatleses which makes me think they have way more left than I would have guessed. Although Grunhaus does make a bunch of wine).

I guess we Adoring Fans are only a limited slice of the wine-buying public!

Plenty of Grunhaus on the market, thankfully. Picked up the 06 Abtsberg Spatlese for $22 from Crush Wines in NY some time back (barely above Dee Vine's sale price, and saw a couple of cases' worth still in the shop last week) - just a really gorgeous, razor sharp wine.

Plenty of Grunhaus on the market, thankfully. Picked up the 06 Abtsberg Spatlese for $22 from Crush Wines in NY some time back (barely above Dee Vine's sale price, and saw a couple of cases' worth still in the shop last week) - just a really gorgeous, razor sharp wine.

Nice price for a nice wine. But I don't know if any of us will want to return to paying 'full price'!

Oswaldo Costa,
Yes I agree the terms “sulfuring”, “sulfiting” or “sulfating” the wines could be very misleading, it is not sulfur that is added but sulfur dioxide. You have to think about how the sulfur dioxide is generated or produced. Elementary sulfur (solid) could be ignited in the presence of oxygen (gas) and produce sulfur dioxide, some sulfur containing compounds could be simple blended with water and also produce sulfur dioxide, and depending upon how acidic this water solution is (and other factors such as temperature) this could happen to a much greater extent.

Salute

[David M. Bueker]

Plenty of Grunhaus on the market, thankfully. Picked up the 06 Abtsberg Spatlese for $22 from Crush Wines in NY some time back (barely above Dee Vine's sale price, and saw a couple of cases' worth still in the shop last week) - just a really gorgeous, razor sharp wine.

Nice price for a nice wine. But I don't know if any of us will want to return to paying 'full price'!

Grunhaus wines have not gone up to any great extent. They used to be price leaders, but never shot up like Prum, Donnhoff and of course Weil/Muller.

Normal price on the '07 Spatlese is about $28, which is not bad at all considering the dollar is back to falling through the floor.

Nice price for a nice wine. But I don't know if any of us will want to return to paying 'full price'!

That was 'full price' from what I saw. They didn't have any indication of sale/etc there - even on the site they're listing $22 as the standard price for the Spatlese (and $16 for the Kabinett).

Ok. I could have sworn recent Grunhaus pricing was into the $30s for the spatleses but I may have been basing that on an outlier.

Glad to hear it!