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WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

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WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:24 am

Laura and I spent Saturday evening with Thor & Theresa Iverson, David Cornwell & the ghost of David from Switzerland. We always have fun, and we always eat and drink well. Saturday was no exception.

Only a few minutes after arriving in late afternoon, Thor and I were into the first wine.

2004 Vodopivec Vitovska (Venezia Guilia)
What’s not to like about a 5 year old wine that’s the color of old brass. It did not smell like old brass, though as usual it did not smell like any other type of white wine on the planet. Laura took a sip and noted the tannins from the extended skin contact. She was not amused. Each time I drink a bottle from this genre of wine I am convinced that they are about half way to the aromatic complexity of great, aged Burgundy. There’s also a textural richness on the palate, and an underlying rusticity. This was amazing stuff, and very hard to forget (or follow).

NV Pierre Gimmonet Blanc de Blancs 1er Cru
Something had to follow the Vitovska, and what better than fine grower Champagne. This bottle must have had a few years on it, as it lacked a disgorgement date on the back label, something Gimmonet has been doing for a while as far as I know. It was still quite bright and fresh, with a strong mousse, but it also showed more breadth of aroma and flavor than some of the new release bottles of this wine I have tried. Blanc de Blancs can sometimes seem shrill in youth to my taste, but a few years of age brings more harmony, and that is when I prefer to drink the all Chardonnay Champagnes. Another wonderful wine makes us two for two.

Theresa served up some home made pasta with crab meat (YUM!!) to accompany the next wine.

2001 Marc Kreydenweiss Pinot Blanc Kritt ‘Les Charmes’
This had a distinct fatness to it that certainly suggests a high percentage of Auxerrois. Lemony, a bit creamy and ever so slightly sweet in its fruit expression, this was a very good partner to the crab and very enjoyable overall, if overshadowed by the first two wines.

We then adjourned to the living room for course number two, the annual tradition of cheese fondue. This was accompanied by more fine wine and a special guest.

2001 J. J. Christoffel Erben Urziger Wurzgarten Riesling Kabinett
2001 J. J. Christoffel Erben Erdener Treppchen Riesling Kabinett

Two kabinetts from the nearly legendary 2001 vintage, from a producer that perhaps best captured the vintage in the Mosel, and two vineyards that, while only a short distance apart, display strikingly different character. The Wurzgarten was almost gangly in its direct and somewhat all over the place expression of spice and fruit, while the Treppchen was more integrated, poised and polished. The Wurzgarten seemed more like a youthful kabinett, and really in need of three or four more years in the cellar to bring its disparate pieces together. There’s certainly enough fruit and sweetness to allow that kind of time. The Treppchen is absolutely ready to drink now, though again it has stuffing to burn, and might become more linear with time. 7 years ago I tasted these two wines and was absolutely certain that the Treppchen was the better wine, and time has done little to change that impression.

Thor opened a blind bottle, hoping to trip me up, and of course succeeding. David Cornwell and Theresa were both in the Beaujolais camp, but I worked my way to the Loire and Cot (Malbec). We were all wrong, as it was yet another bottle of the 2007 Dashe L’Enfant Terrible Zinfandel. I actually liked the wine this time, though the experience finally crystallized for me why I didn’t like it in the past – it’s not zin. If I am drinking zin there are certain things I am looking for, and essence of strawberry with tutti-frutti sweetness are not those things. I suppose if people keep serving it blind I could drink a lot of it (though I would eventually catch on), but I do not get the point of proving that zinfandel can be made to taste like it is not zinfandel.

David Cornwell then opened a bottle of the 1995 Ravenswood Cooke Vineyard Zinfandel. After a brief bout with volatility the fruit came out, along with dusty, nearly rocky earth tones and a brawnier, more texturally rich expression than the Dashe which spoke of exactly what it was: zinfandel, and very good wine. I would suggest drinking up soon before the volatility takes over.

For a while there had been a recording of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony playing on the stereo. A gift to Theresa from fellow board member David from Switzerland, it was a 1942 recording conducted by Wilhelm Furtwangler. Wine conversation and jokes about Keith Olberman aside, it was rather compelling for the first three movements. But the final movement caused something that had never happened before (and likely will never again): Thor and I were essentially silent for 20 minutes. That is all the commentary that is needed regarding the sheer genius of the music and the performance. Thanks to David from Switzerland for providing the moment (if not the wine) of the night.

And thanks to another David, this time David Cornwell, for providing yet another in the amazing string of older Rhone wines that he seems to conjure from nowhere. This time it was a Northern Rhone.

1990 Clape Cornas
If only I had bought wines like this back when they were $20 or $25 for a bottle, I would now have a cellar full of gems ready to drink. Compelling in its aromatic blend of dusty fruit, earth and worn leather, this was more about balance and integration that any individual component. It seemed destined to accompany the bacon-garnished Coq au Vin (actually Coq au Riesling), though it brought plenty of its own bacon. Delicious.

We then entered into a long, difficult spell.

1996 Jasmin Cote Rotie
Maybe corked, maybe off in some other way.

2000 Texier Cotes du Rhone Villages Seguret
Oxidized at the hands of a plastic cork.

2001 Texier Cotes du Rhone Villages St. Gervais
Nearly wonderful, but oxidized at the hands of a plastic cork.

1994 Edmunds St. John Syrah Durell Vineyard
Very badly corked.

1999 Bosquet des Papes Chateauneuf du Pape Cuvee Classique
Certainly Chateauneuf, but lacking in any real meaningful element to grab a hold of. Perhaps it’s just in between stages of development, but I’ll never find out, as it was my last bottle.

1999 Paul Anheuser Kreuznacher Krotenpfuhl Riesling Beerenauslese
Utterly boring. Stultifyingly boring. Spiced apricot and nothing else boring.

But then there was chocolate fondue & all was right with the world.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Mark S » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:11 am

David M. Bueker wrote:... but I do not get the point of proving that zinfandel can be made to taste like it is not zinfandel.


With the disclaimer that I have not yet had this bottle, I'd agree with the sentiment, and wonder why the fascination with this by the Loire-heads. It seems you can make a wine any way you want, but for what purpose? To be the hero of the 'anti' crowds? Of course, if it is only a matter of picking early and letting the wine express that...


1996 Jasmin Cote Rotie
Maybe corked, maybe off in some other way.


not the best Jasmin. I had this a couple of years ago and it didn't do anything for me: rather middling and a little angry, the worst showing of a Jasmin I've had, and this is a producer I like. Chalk it up to vintage.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 am

I've had other bottles of the '96 Jasmin that were much better.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Tim York » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:24 am

David M. Bueker wrote:For a while there had been a recording of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony playing on the stereo. A gift to Theresa from fellow board member David from Switzerland, it was a 1942 recording conducted by Wilhelm Furtwangler. Wine conversation and jokes about Keith Olberman aside, it was rather compelling for the first three movements. But the final movement caused something that had never happened before (and likely will never again): Thor and I were essentially silent for 20 minutes. That is all the commentary that is needed regarding the sheer genius of the music and the performance. Thanks to David from Switzerland for providing the moment (if not the wine) of the night.



I'm surprised that you managed to keep talking until the fourth movement. Beethoven's 9th is not good background music and even less so with Furtwängler at the helm. That 1942 recording, made at a public performance in the depths of the war, is an absolute classic of recorded music.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:16 pm

We were busy eating through the 1st, 2nd and 3rd movements, though there were moments of intense listening.

I am now combing through the 20+ (I thought I only had 17) versions of the 9th in my posession, doing compare and contrast.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Jenise » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:40 pm

A fun read, David. Interesting the wines you guys drink--would think you know each other's cellars (and personal quirks) so well by now you wouldn't be able to shock or surprise each other.

Btw, had Pierre Gimmonet's '96 BdB last weekend at Lee Short's house. It was my first taste of that producer, and it was gorgeous.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:42 pm

We do know each others' cellars really well, but I have a terrible habit of overthinking blind tasting. When I go with first instinct I am really good, but I rarely allow myself to do that.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Tim York » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:59 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:
I am now combing through the 20+ (I thought I only had 17) versions of the 9th in my posession, doing compare and contrast.


Like you I have multiple versions, of which three by Furtwängler including this 1942 one. I haven't done a compare and contrast for some time but it is my feeling that "modern" renditions from the likes of Rattle, van Immerseel, Gardiner, Norringtion and even Harnoncourt seem shy away from the majesty of music and give somewhat literal renderings. I remain faithful to Furt and to my memory of an incandescent if quite slow public performance by Klemperer in the 60s (his recording is several notches lower in voltage).

Find an excuse to let us know what you think.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Saina » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:01 pm

I have only recently begun to appreciate Beethoven, but I must say one thing: Furtwängler rocks! (Just like Musar!)
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:11 pm

Well so far I have revisited Gardiner (boring) and Karajan's 1977 recording, and I prefer the 1942 Furtwangler, though the sound on the Furtwangler is of ocurse atrocious. The '77 Karajan version is majestic, but I wish for a bit more pace. I have the '51 Furtwangler recording & will be revisiting soon.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Saina » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:19 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:[...] and I prefer the 1942 Furtwangler, though the sound on the Furtwangler is of course atrocious.


There is an anecdote about another great conductor, Eugen Jochum, who had a stereo set installed in his house. A sound engineer from Deutsche Grammophon istalled it in just the perfect place, but his wife thought it wasn't aesthetically pleasing so she moved it into what supposedly was the worst spot in the room. The sound engineer one day walked in on Jochum transfixed upon a Bruckner recording in this acoustically unfavourable place. A truly great performance transcends the limitations of sound, so let us rejoice in the historical marvels preserved on 78rpms.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Salil » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:42 pm

Thank you for those notes David. That really does sound like a great evening, until that streak of corked/off bottles at the end. (Plastic corks and TCA laden corks - that's a combination from hell. Such a shame to see some potentially stunning wines like Jasmin, ESJ and Texier all ruined.)
Partiularly glad to hear how well the Christoffels showed. Have two bottles (the 01 Treppchen Kabinett and the 01 Wurzgarten unstarred Auslese) coming my way fairly soon, and I can't wait to open them after those notes.

PS: Let me know any time you want to revisit that 51 Furtwangler recording! :)
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:57 pm

Any time Salil. I now have a copy of the '42 version as well. Glad to know you're a fan.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by SteveEdmunds » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:04 pm

I bought a case of '96 Jasmin back in '98, and was really sorry I did. The lot I got was seriously mercaptan-reduced, in the nastiest way. Yuck. Bought from what i remember of earlier vintages that had been enchanting.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Tim York » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:35 am

Otto Nieminen wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:[...] and I prefer the 1942 Furtwangler, though the sound on the Furtwangler is of course atrocious.


There is an anecdote about another great conductor, Eugen Jochum, who had a stereo set installed in his house. A sound engineer from Deutsche Grammophon istalled it in just the perfect place, but his wife thought it wasn't aesthetically pleasing so she moved it into what supposedly was the worst spot in the room. The sound engineer one day walked in on Jochum transfixed upon a Bruckner recording in this acoustically unfavourable place. A truly great performance transcends the limitations of sound, so let us rejoice in the historical marvels preserved on 78rpms.


True. However, one of my three Furtwängler 9th recordings benefits from almost modern (mono) sound; it was made at a public performance in Lucerne with the Philharmonia Orchestra in 1954 a few months before he died; the sound quality is better than that of the 1951 Bayreuth performance and the performance is incredibly fine just missing that extra ounce fire of the 1942.

If Furtwângler had lived a couple of years longer (he was only 68, I think), we would have had stereo recordings and more Wagner in which he was supreme.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:46 pm

Given all the bad press this Jasmin is getting I should be glad I only own one more bottle. :?

I will likely get back to the Beethoven this weekend. I had started to listen to a relatively recent recording done by Benjamin Zander with the Boston Symphony Orchestra (done at "original" tempo markings), but had to walk away from it. I'll restart on that one for fun, then on to some others.

It turns out that all 3 Furtwangler recordings are avaialble on iTunes, but only as a set. Since I have the 1942 and 1951 there's no point in buying the set. I would not normally buy symphonic music on iTunes anyway, but with the sonic limitations of some of the older recordings I guess I am not too concerned.

By the way, just on a Beethoven kick here, but what are folks' preferences among his other symphonies? I am a very big fan of the 4th and 7th, but not so enamored of the 5th or 6th (or even the 3rd). Maybe I just have not heard the right versions yet. Something about the 7th speak to me.

And as I said to David from Switzerland in a PM, don't even get me started on Mozart.

I think we need a good music thread in the Friends & Fun Forum.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Saina » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:13 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:By the way, just on a Beethoven kick here, but what are folks' preferences among his other symphonies? I am a very big fan of the 4th and 7th, but not so enamored of the 5th or 6th (or even the 3rd). Maybe I just have not heard the right versions yet. Something about the 7th speak to me. [...] I think we need a good music thread in the Friends & Fun Forum.


I like the 7th - especially with Carlos Kleiber conducting. I have enjoyed the 3rd and 6th to some degree also. But as far as Beethoven goes, I am still more a fan of the late piano sonatas and string quartets than any symphony.

I classical thread on F&F would be welcome! Should we divide it into threads on different eras of music, or just a big, rambling, huge thread for everything?
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Hoke » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:41 pm

But when's the Bob Dylan Retrospective Marathon Dinner scheduled?

Make sure a gun is not in the same house with Thor for that, though.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:46 pm

I can do the Dylan dinner.

Otto - why not just one thread for now.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Salil » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:24 pm

Hoke wrote:But when's the Bob Dylan Retrospective Marathon Dinner scheduled?

Are covers of Dylan classics allowed as well?
(right now listening to a Hendrix performance of All Along the Watchtower that's pretty awesome as well)
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:29 pm

The Hendrix version is great, but I am really sick of it. It's been destroyed by rock radio.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Mark Kogos » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:09 pm

David

I had the 2007 J. J. Christoffel Erben Erdener Treppchen Riesling Kabinett the other night. It was only after I started researching it on the web, I realised there were 2 versions of the Kabinett. Based on your comparative tasting of the 2001, I will try and track down both of the 2007 and see what they are like side by side.

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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by Tim York » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:45 am

Otto Nieminen wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:By the way, just on a Beethoven kick here, but what are folks' preferences among his other symphonies? I am a very big fan of the 4th and 7th, but not so enamored of the 5th or 6th (or even the 3rd). Maybe I just have not heard the right versions yet. Something about the 7th speak to me. [...] I think we need a good music thread in the Friends & Fun Forum.


I like the 7th - especially with Carlos Kleiber conducting. I have enjoyed the 3rd and 6th to some degree also. But as far as Beethoven goes, I am still more a fan of the late piano sonatas and string quartets than any symphony.

I classical thread on F&F would be welcome! Should we divide it into threads on different eras of music, or just a big, rambling, huge thread for everything?


IMO 9th is the greatest of his symphonies. Of the others, my first love was the 7th (I agree about Carlos Kleiber) but now I tend now to prefer the 4th and 8th. I am with you Otto in my love for the late sonatas, particularly Op 109,110 and 111, and the late quartets, which have an intimate intensity which the symphonies can't rival in all their grandeur.
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Re: WTN: Long Day's Journey into Beethoven

by David M. Bueker » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:38 am

Ok - I don't want to trounce Jenise's interesting thread on developing an interest in classical music in F&F, so we can continue here for a while.

The sonatas are of great interest to me as well, though I never really enjoyed them beyond intellectual please until recently (the Beethoven violin & piano pieces are of particular interest). The same goes for the string quartets. For most of my life I think I needed the sheer "volume" of the symphonies and piano concertos (love those as well) to drown out my life enough for me to notice them. The same goes for Mozart - much more focused on symphonies and concertos despite the beauty of the "smaller" pieces.

Among the works for individual or small groups of instruments, I think my personal favorites are the Bach Cello Suites.
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