Chocolate and wine

At the time I was getting interested in wine, mid-1980s (the 1984 Estanzia Cab to be exact, ~$4/bottle), the prevailing thought regarding chocolate and wine was that "...they do not go together so don't even try." Now it seems that every wine shop I go into and every website I visit touts the wonderful pairing of chocolate and wine. Is my mid-1980s memory faulty and if not, what changed?

Jon, Hi....

Your memory is not playing tricks. In fact, most people were saying that the only wines that went well with chocolate were Sauternes and Tokaji.

Despite the "rules of yore", good chocolate and good wine have always made a fine match. And also despite the rules, the wines that are not appropriate are Sauternes and Tokaji...... when one wants a sweet with those it should be a fruit-based sweet.

Best
Rogov

Not faulty at all, Jon.

We that are ITB are constantly forced to deal with this. For years I staunchly and sternly opined to anyone who would listen (and many who wouldn't) that chocolate and red wine was such a potentially disastrous combination that it was best avoided at all cost.

Damned people wouldn't leave it alone, so I had to explain. Most chocolate is sweet, and sugar is anathema to most reds. Chocolate has a bitter component and that can also play havoc with the balance of the wine. Blah blah blah blah blah. And still the people would urge me to suggest choco/wine combinations!

I finally surrendered. I still feel that most choco/wines should be avoided, and I still tell people there's more harm than good done with such pairings, but I also offer a seminar, if required and requested. And they are always.....always...popular. Even with wine geeks, who should know better.

When I do the pairings, though, I limit the choco to bittersweet, high cocoa fat---NO milk chocolates, and definitely NO white chocolate. If I'm being elaborate, then I'll go to choco in recipes, such as mole, or a "dry" chocolate cake, or a hard choco/cocoa cookie.

One of the best choco/wine tastings I've done for myself is from a new choco company in San Francisco, where they make the chocos by a "Flavor/Aroma Wheel", taken from the Ann Noble Aroma Wheel. They don't add flavors, mind you, but they use selected beans and process and blend in such a way as to emphasize natural characteristics in the choco. So you end up with Citrusy, Fruity, Floral, Nutty, Earthy, Chocolatey. Since they are all the bittersweet/high cocoa fat content, they don't clash with wines, and can be paired rather effectively with sympathetic wines.

But mostly, I don't try to do even that. It's only when I'm pressed. I don't know what the compelling fascination with wine and chocolates is...but it is powerful and pervasive.

Give me a chocolate cake, a jug of red wine, and some friends; any day!

The cynic might say overtoasted oak is what changed

Absolutely.....here's a WTN that I posted on another board in 2006 for a 2005 Mollydooker "The Boxer" Shiraz

This is Sarah and Sparky Marquis (Fox Creek and Marquis Phillips fame) new venture. So you want ridiculous? You got it with this wine. It's the biggest, fattest, concentrated shiraz I've ever had! Huge blackberry and blueberry flavors with a smack of chocolate. Oily in the mouth. Our friend Ann could not get over the chocolate note in this wine. The legs on the glass were numerous and thick. So what do you eat with this monster? Chocolate iced brownies. It was a perfect match. Pure hedonisim. Other than a chocolate dessert I can't imagine what you would pair this with. It should be in the dessert wine isle. 16%Alc/vol. $22 but I paid $18. One cool marketing element with this wine is on the back label it has a small postage stamp with all the relevant information so restaurant consumers can remember the wine by pulling off the stamp and taking it home. FWIW, Parker gave this wine a 95.

Drew

I don't know what the compelling fascination with wine and chocolates is...but it is powerful and pervasive.

There are plenty of reasons for chocolate and wine to be paired, that have nothing to do with taste:
--they are both regarded as flavorful indulgences, so putting them together appeals to our national tendency towards overkill - "more is always better!"
--they both have extensive variations in flavor and price, appealing to marketers who want to charge more for either.
--there's probably a pretty substantial overlap between people who buy pricey artisanal wines and people who buy pricey artisanal chocolates.
--it entertains the non-geeks at wine festivals and tasting rooms.
--you can buy something "from wine country" for Aunt Millicent, who doesn't drink.

I don't get the appeal either, I much prefer coffee or milk with my chocolate. It's not that all wine and chocolate taste bad together (although I imagine cool year Sancerre and chocolate mousse would be pretty disgusting). But, like chocolate-dipped strawberries, the whole is even less than a sum of the parts. That said, given the complexities of wine and chocolate and people's palates, I bet this is highly dependent on the individual's taste.

Not that I do it often, but chocolate and Brachetto d'Acqui are a perfect match. Banyuls isn't too shabby either.

Agreeing with Hoke (and thinking that I should have said it in my original post) that red wine and chocolate matches should be based entirely on bitter-sweet chocolate and that of a minimum 72% cocoa fat content. Milk chocolate and/or white chocolate and red wine are invariably catastrophic.

Best
Rogov

Banyuls isn't too shabby either.

We love Banyuls with the darkest, bitterest, high quality chocolate we can find.

I never understood this relationship between wine and chocolate - but that's because UK chocolate is so sweet.

Pair dark chocolate with red wine and it can work.

Cheers, Dave C

Dave
A slight edit if I may: "Mainstream UK chocolate is so sweet."

There are some good producers out and about, but Cadburys/Nestle(Rowntrees) match your description well. Too sweet - and too little cocoa.

regards
Ian

In my experience for the ultimate chocolate experience, try pairing with one of the Rutherglen Rare Muscats such as the Campbells Isabella or Chamber Rare. A fortified style unique to northern Victoria, these wines are an experience that any dedicated wine geek must try at least once.

Banyuls isn't too shabby either.

We love Banyuls with the darkest, bitterest, high quality chocolate we can find.

That's the only combo of wine & chocolate that I've found to be pleasurable.

Scharffenberger chocolate is popular here on the west coast. Melt it, pour over sourdough toast and drink Amarone--hedonism!

There are plenty of reasons for chocolate and wine to be paired, that have nothing to do with taste:<SNIP>

To your list I would also add: "Because it flies in the face of conventional wisdom, it is also attractive to those who decry the idea that certain wines and foods go better with each other"

I don't get the appeal either, I much prefer coffee or milk with my chocolate.

I'm not much of a dessert fancier, much preferring the savory to the sweet, but if I do have chocolate, coffee or black tea is my drink of choice. The bitterness and tannins help, to me.

Mark Lipton

Try wine-infused chocolate:
http://www.cocoafarm.co.uk/

or sparkling shiraz truffles:
http://haighschocolates.com.au/our_choc ... lates.html

I think Mark has the best advice: get some liqueur muscat, and some good quality dark chocolate, and enjoy!

Try wine-infused chocolate:

Matilda
The 'out-laws' dog did indeed (sneakily, as dogs are prone to do) try some that were intended as a gift for me. She didn't feel too good later that day...
regards
Ian

It is often said that the Grenache based VDNs (Vins Doux Naturel), i.e. sweet fortified reds, from Roussillon are ideal with chocolate and for once the conventional wisdom is correct when we are looking at "chocolate" with high pure chocolate (70% is a good indicator) and low sugar content. Their sweet dark fruit and excellent grip make a perfect foil. There are different types, some matured in bottle like vinatge port, some matured in wood like tawny port and others matured under the sun in glass containers; the last tow types are naturally quite oxidative in style. IMHO, the vintage style works best with chocolate.

So I go along with Banyuls (Mas Blanc, Rectorie, Vial Magnères) as a suggestion but the equivalents from nearby Maury (Mas Amiel, Pouderoux) and Rivesaltes (Vila) are just as good. I also tried at a recent tasting Tannatis, a sweet fortified Tannat made by the same technique by Berthoumieu in the Madiran area; it was wonderful with some dark Belgian chocolates also on show.

Here in Belgium, we are lucky in having a wine merchant who sometimes offers very old wines of this sort.

Some people claim that dry reds can go well with chocolate. I am sceptical; I have only once tried the combination; it was at the winegrower's bidding at the show on the Cahors bridge last year; IMHO it didn't work.

Not faulty at all, Jon.

We that are ITB are constantly forced to deal with this. For years I staunchly and sternly opined to anyone who would listen (and many who wouldn't) that chocolate and red wine was such a potentially disastrous combination that it was best avoided at all cost.

Damned people wouldn't leave it alone, so I had to explain. Most chocolate is sweet, and sugar is anathema to most reds. Chocolate has a bitter component and that can also play havoc with the balance of the wine. Blah blah blah blah blah. And still the people would urge me to suggest choco/wine combinations!

I finally surrendered. I still feel that most choco/wines should be avoided, and I still tell people there's more harm than good done with such pairings, but I also offer a seminar, if required and requested. And they are always.....always...popular. Even with wine geeks, who should know better.

When I do the pairings, though, I limit the choco to bittersweet, high cocoa fat---NO milk chocolates, and definitely NO white chocolate. If I'm being elaborate, then I'll go to choco in recipes, such as mole, or a "dry" chocolate cake, or a hard choco/cocoa cookie.

One of the best choco/wine tastings I've done for myself is from a new choco company in San Francisco, where they make the chocos by a "Flavor/Aroma Wheel", taken from the Ann Noble Aroma Wheel. They don't add flavors, mind you, but they use selected beans and process and blend in such a way as to emphasize natural characteristics in the choco. So you end up with Citrusy, Fruity, Floral, Nutty, Earthy, Chocolatey. Since they are all the bittersweet/high cocoa fat content, they don't clash with wines, and can be paired rather effectively with sympathetic wines.

But mostly, I don't try to do even that. It's only when I'm pressed. I don't know what the compelling fascination with wine and chocolates is...but it is powerful and pervasive.

The key is 90% cocoa and above--never milk chocolate--and always a fairly fruit forward red, like a brambly Zinfandel or a dark cherry quality such as is found in many Merlots.

Hoke: real white chocolate is mainly fat that is removed during processing to make cocoa into chocolate. That fat pairs fairly well next to a good Champagne or maybe a Rose Champagne. Problem is, the white chocolate we get on the market is not from chocolate, but instead a package of sugary emulsifiers--never mind with wine, I wouldn't eat it either with anything or alone!

Having said the above, in my palate, the best wines for chocolate are Banyuls, Maury, and some of the Madeira or Port styles.

I favor Banyuls, Maury and for chocolate-covered strawberries or a strawberry or raspberry dessert that includes a chocolate drizzle the Brachetto d'Acqui as suggested by Dan. Brachetto has a red berry flavor to begin with so that works for me. I haven't tried chocolate yet with the Rutherglen Muscat but may get around to trying that.

I favor Banyuls, Maury and for chocolate-covered strawberries or a strawberry or raspberry dessert that includes a chocolate drizzle the Brachetti d'Acqui as suggested by Dan. Brachetti has a red berry flavor to begin with so that works for me. I haven't tried chocolate yet with the Rutherglen Muscat but may get around to trying that.

JC - I just bought my first Rutherglen and look forward to trying it.

Banfi's Rosa Regale Brachetto d'Aqui is particularly good with a high quality milk chocolate.

To each his own. I would never pair chocolate with any wine that I valued. It is like szechuan spicy foods - everyone is always trying to find a wine it won't absolutely kill, and then call the hapless Gewurz or whatever they choose a 'good match' when in reality it was only chosen because it remains recognizably wine when forced into that sort of misconceived pairing, while other wines crumble in defeat.

If you want to eat chocolate with wine, please do it with some cheap thing that won't be a loss to you, because anything of note will be changed dramatically by that sort of pairing. If you like the pairing of good wine with chocolate, so be it. Your dllars, your wine. Some people eat peanut butter sandwiches with their Champagne but that doesn't mean I agree with them.

What next, threads on the best wines to drink with Chili or tunafish......