Natural Cork vs. Artificial Cork vs. Screw Cap Controversy

Does anyone else have any experience with them?

Only as a consumer. I think they're a good closure, neutral as well, i.e. they don't impart the taste of cork to the wine. If I open a bottle and find a DIAM then it gives me the feeling the winery has thought long and hard about closures and are serious about it.
I
f you're not going to use Stelvin then DIAM is my next preference.

But still need that nonsense with corkscrews.

What controversy?

I definitely admit the poll was too simplistic and probably shouldn't have included it in the actual topic. The one thing I can say is that I do appreciate the responses. I am new to the WLDG, and as mentioned when it comes to people passionate about wine this may be a none issue or considered beating a dead horse. I am writing to help educate the more 'general' public and wine enthusiasts who still don't know what to think about the various wine closures. I have had many questions about wine closure and various perceptions about the quality of wine associated with each. Seems the general public thinks a screw top equates to lower quality but that is why I am here getting more feedback and opinion.

Looking forward to getting to know the group better.

Rob W
Journalist / Contributor
http://www.okanaganwinereview.com
The Premier Social Network
Dedicated to the wines of the Okanagan Valley!

Does anyone else have any experience with them?

Only as a consumer. I think they're a good closure, neutral as well, i.e. they don't impart the taste of cork to the wine. If I open a bottle and find a DIAM then it gives me the feeling the winery has thought long and hard about closures and are serious about it.
I
f you're not going to use Stelvin then DIAM is my next preference.

But still need that nonsense with corkscrews.

Alan, we've (various parts of my company) experimented with DIAM, and they apparently do a good job. When it got down to it, though, everyone came down on the side of screwcaps. Consistency, and when you get down to it...who needs a corkscrew to pull a stopper out of a bottle when you can use a screwcap?

That is, why maintain a useless archaism?

Traditionalists usually get over themselves.

I've settled on Diam corks for my winery and have been using them since before they were called Diam. I haven't had any corked wine that I know of, nor leakers, and they keep the traditionalists (mostly) satisfied. So for those who were looking, here is the contrarian opinion. Does anyone else have any experience with them?

Are you telling your customer that your bottle has a DIAM in the neck and not a natural cork? I think I might have seen one label that proudly states that they use DIAMs. Otherwise, you have no idea until you take the capsule off.

As for crown caps, you still need some sort of implement to open them, and you can not replace the cap again. I guess that is where the odd spare Zork comes in handy.

....Traditionalists usually get over themselves.

Hoke, Hi…..


I do enjoy entering into these friendly duels with you!

Intentionally avoiding the issue specifically at hand but relating entirely to the issue of tradition. Like Oliver Goldsmith and, I suspect, like you, “I love everything that's old, - old friends, old times, old manners, old books, old wine”. That is not, of course, to say that I do not enjoy the new. Again like Goldsmith: “The first time I read an excellent work, it is to me just as if I gained a new friend; and when I read over a book I have perused before, it resembles the meeting of an old one”

Indeed, when tradition conflicts with the needs of the modern world, I am all for change. I would never, for example, give up my computer but I continue to insist on writing personal letters by hand. True, even my ancient Parker (True Blue model, circa 1933) will occasionally make a smudge but I forgive that for to smudge is human, to smile at that smudge divine. Nor would I give my computer for either an abacus or a slide rule. Nor, for that matter, will I discard old books merely because they need rebinding and perhaps even de-worming. Going a step further, I continue to believe that if one has to clean a bit of meat from between the teeth that the place to use the toothpick is in the men's or ladies' rooms and not at the table; that if I reach a door first I will open and hold it for my companion. All of course unnecessary…..but each of which adds immeasurably to my concept of what the civil/civilized/cultured life should be about.

Perhaps also worth considering my attitude that gentlemanly flirtation is one of the great pleasures of life. And in that the pleasure of flirting with women that I have known for many, many years as well as with women I am just meeting. In a phrase…why give up the pleasures of life when they add to the comfort of life?

Indeed we can talk about old books that acquire worms or of antique pens or automobiles that need an excessive amount of maintenance but that, after all is why god created people to rebind and disinfect books, and mechanics who know how to maintain those pens or automobiles. Faults there will be in everything…….. That is not, however, reflective of a need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

I raise my epee in salute to you

Rogov

Hey, watch where you point that epee, buddy.

Of course I understand your adherence to, and reverence for, things traditional. Not a bad thing to have a base, else how else can you propel yourself from it?

I think it is possible to be, like the Roman god Janus, capable of facing in both directions, forward and past. I look more eagerly toward the future; you look more fondly toward the past, Daniel.

I value efficacy more than the comfort of repetition for the sake of repetition too. Doesn't mean I have to forego silk for rayon; far from it. That's an unnecessary change. But inefficient tree bark for efficient screwcap (i.e., the new does better than the old) is an exchange I gladly, eagerly, make.

I suppose I should become more reactionary, since I'm at the point in my life where there is significantly more past than future to look at. But while I value what has been I have always been infinitely more interested in what will is and what will be.

No fear.....when fencing with friends the tip of my foil is always blunted. As to fencing with enemies, a deed I have yet to accomplish and with luck will be able to avoid.

I may not, however, be quite the fuddy-duddy you make me out to be at times. Indeed I look forward to the future, and that with both hope and trepidation. As a person who has been intimate with artificial intelligence (not from the computer but from the cognitive qua developmental side), for example, I await with eagerness the continued development of smart machines. On the other hand, as a man enamored of the culinary life I dread the day when all or most foods will be created in massive laboratories and the return to "eating" as opposed to "dining".

With re intelligent machines, indeed they will take us beyond where we are but one of their major uses will be in aiding us to guard and preserve our past. Of course it is the present and the future that should hold our attention but without the ability to learn from and enjoy and yes, admire parts of the past we shall never be able to use those advances.

As to the future of what will seal our wine bottles, may I respectfully suggest that we (the collective we) hold our horses just a bit. Not all that is new will prove to be good. As to truly permanent solutions, I would even venture to guess that those will lie in directions that have not even crossed our wildest dreams. The future does have one great advantage - it is unknown.

Best
Rogov

Tradition is truly at the root of my interest and research into the current state and future direction of wine closures. The friendly banter that has stirred may show that Rogov may not be the self proclaimed 'Resident Curmudgeon' or a fuddy-duddy, but like me fond of the past and hopeful for the future.

Like the newer generations forgoing wearing watches as the time on a cell phone is always close at hand, traditional cork wine closures may be replaced partially or entirely in the unceasing pursuit of the 'better' way. The pomp and circumstance that can be associated with opening a corked bottle of wine does hold fond memories for me. The various implements used to open a bottle, from the waiters cork screw to an ornate Legacy or Rogar wine opener does bring with it some tradition vs. twisting off a cap. As I still have a collection of watches, I too may hold onto other wine opening tools in the name of tradition. If screw caps do become the standard I will never again be on vacation and unable to open a bottle, if trusted bottle opener has been left behind.

So with one hand on a keyboard looking to the future so too shall I continue checking the passage of time from my wrist.

Cheers,

Rob W
Journalist / Contributor
http://www.okanaganwinereview.com
The Premier Social Network
Dedicated to the wines of the Okanagan Valley!

Rob,

I really do believe that, over time, the traditional cork will go the way fo the horse and buggy and the quill writing pen. In a generation, or two all affection for the device will have accompanied the traditionalists to the great hereafter. The cork was of its time and has hung on well past it.

... The cork was of its time and has hung on well past it.

When John Donne cried out: "There is, there is, there is a God" it said nothing about the existence or non-existence of God but it surely did say a great deal about John Donne. As with Mister Donne, your opinion is loud and clearly expressed. Whether that says anything about future realities or merely something about your opinion remains to be seen.

I do believe that we wine lovers have truly reached an impasse on this. Those who do not believe in God cannot convince believers to be atheists and those who believe will be equally hard put to convince the non-believers.

Best
Rogov

The various implements used to open a bottle, from the waiters cork screw to an ornate Legacy or Rogar wine opener does bring with it some tradition vs. twisting off a cap. !

So I guess you eschew using the ring-pull on a can of soft drink and use the traditional triangular pointed piece of bent metal, and always use a can-opener on a tin of foodstuffs even when it has an easy-pull tab?

And, like Rogov, you're the only one on your street who still user a starter handle on your car

The important thing is what is inside!!

I absolutely agree that it is whats on the inside that counts. Just got off on a more reminiscent tangent with Rogov and Hoke's recent posts. My main interest has been met to get some intelligent input on the topic that can help me solidify my thoughts on the current direction and some resistance I have notice with consumers to change. Your forward thinking and analogies are much appreciated.

Rob W
Journalist / Contributor
http://www.okanaganwinereview.com
The Premier Social Network
Dedicated to the wines of the Okanagan Valley!

[Jenise]

Rob, are you actually located in the OK?

I am back and forth between Peachland and Ojai throughout the year. My business partner and one of our main contributors is a permanent Okanagan Valley resident, and the second is a Okanagan Valley native living outside of Vancouver. So I get to enjoy both the Okanagan and Central Coast of California wine regions.

Rob W
Journalist / Contributor
http://www.okanaganwinereview.com
The Premier Social Network
Dedicated to the wines of the Okanagan Valley!

When John Donne cried out: "There is, there is, there is a God" it said nothing about the existence or non-existence of God but it surely did say a great deal about John Donne. As with Mister Donne, your opinion is loud and clearly expressed. Whether that says anything about future realities or merely something about your opinion remains to be seen.

Daniel,

I confess that I am both a practicing engineer and a rather strident Darwinist. I love effective, efficient solutions and believe that the most efficient solutions will survive in the end. To a large extent I believe that history bares that out. On the other hand, while I can design you a very high strength to mass ratio step ladder, I could never have painted "The Starry Night". My left-brained, linear view of the world could indeed be in error when it comes to the longevity of the cork. As I once read somewhere, "Making a prediction is difficult, particularly when it is about the future."

When John Donne cried out: "There is, there is, there is a God" it said nothing about the existence or non-existence of God but it surely did say a great deal about John Donne. As with Mister Donne, your opinion is loud and clearly expressed. Whether that says anything about future realities or merely something about your opinion remains to be seen.

Daniel,

I confess that I am both a practicing engineer and a rather strident Darwinist. I love effective, efficient solutions and believe that the most efficient solutions will survive in the end. To a large extent I believe that history bares that out. On the other hand, while I can design you a very high strength to mass ratio step ladder, I could never have painted "The Starry Night". My left-brained, linear view of the world could indeed be in error when it comes to the longevity of the cork. As I once read somewhere, "Making a prediction is difficult, particularly when it is about the future."

Daniel:
Are you sure that is Donne? Donne was a clergyman, but that doesn't sound like him.

Sam,
I appreciate the strengths of the right brain and the left brain. When it comes down to choosing the closure that will best let my wine be poured as intended, I want left brain decisions.

Are you sure that is Donne? Donne was a clergyman, but that doesn't sound like him.

Dale, Hi....


Memory (which can be fallible) tells me it was in his Of the Progress of the Soul.

Best
Rogov

It is worth recording that if this poll were presented to a population of Continental European wine-lovers, the finding would probably be reversed, with the only votes in favour of screwcaps coming from Austria and Germany and perhaps Scandinavia.

The perception here is that graceful medium/long term ageing under screwcap is non-proven, which is reinforced by the fact that no virtually no bottles under screwcap are available here from top producers, except again from some Austrians and Germans.

The advocates of screwcaps are often quite passionate and in the past I have been subject to a torrent of invective from one or two for making this point.

virtually no bottles under screwcap are available here from top producers, except again from some Austrians and Germans.

Baumard's Quarts de Chaume and Laroche's Chablis are among the top French producers that have recently embraced screwcaps.

virtually no bottles under screwcap are available here from top producers, except again from some Austrians and Germans.

Baumard's Quarts de Chaume and Laroche's Chablis are among the top French producers that have recently embraced screwcaps.

I doubt very much if they distribute their screwcapped bottles in the European market but it is good that they see the benefit for export markets and it does signify that Michel Laroche and Florent Baumard are convinced. Until a quality leader starts promoting screwcapped bottles for sale in European markets, especially France, Italy and Spain, consumer scepticism will remain.

Several years ago I heard Olivier Humbrecht speaking strongly in favour of screwcaps over synthetics but AFAIK not a single bottle under screwcap has bee sold by his estate in Europe (and elsewhere?).

BTW I don't think that Laroche is perceived as a quality leader in Chablis. If it were Ravenneau, Dauvissat or William Fèvre, that would be a different matter, particularly the last if combined with a switch over at Bouchard P&F.

BTW I don't think that Laroche is perceived as a quality leader in Chablis. If it were Ravenneau, Dauvissat or William Fèvre, that would be a different matter, particularly the last if combined with a switch over at Bouchard P&F.

Have to agree, even though I am grudgingly switching over to Laroche for cellaring purposes so that I can store my chablis without fear of premox. Will let you know in several years how that turns out!

Please stop! Please stop! I can't STAND IT any more!

Dear friends: Please read this before engaging in any further opining...I'd be very, very grateful.

Please stop! Please stop! I can't STAND IT any more!

Dear friends: Please read this before engaging in any further opining...I'd be very, very grateful.

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