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TN: 1986 Bordeaux

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Bill Spohn

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TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Bill Spohn » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:35 pm

Notes from a recent dinner.

1999 Pol Roger Brut Extra Cuvee de Reserve – medium bodied fresh wine without too much yeastiness, but with good fruit and notes of nuts and fruit. Nice lengthy finish. Very early days yet, but could become very good with time. 60% Pinot Noir, 40% Chardonnay

2002 Louis Michel et Fils Chablis Grand cru Les Clos – citrus and floral nose, fairly full bodied with very good length. Very good!

2001 Zind Humbrecht Pinot Gris Clos Windsbuhl – a very interesting wine that we wisely opted to have without food as an intermezzo. Apricot colour with a pink tint typical of pinot gris, a big sweet nose with more of the said apricot and some honey, a thick viscous feel in the mouth, and seemingly low in acid but I expect that the acidity is just fine and the high RS gives the impression of softness. This has the RS of a vendage Tardif wine. Sadly, there is none of this wine in my cellar….. It should have a very long life.

1986 Ch. La Dominique – I brought this St. Emilion as a preface to the other weightier wines. I thought that someone should inject some maturity to the event! It showed well with a classic nose with a hint of green pepper, some light tannin, and what was a fairly short finish at the beginning but this seemed to lengthen as the wine opened up in the glass. It ended with an impression of cocoa. Mature and ready.

1986 Ch. Talbot – I was favourably impressed with this wine. The last time I’d tried it I saw signs of coming around (the previous few times it was hard and unyielding). This time it showed as still very dark, but had a nice nose of good fruit with some deep dark notes that reminded me of a Rhone. In the mouth is was a big wine, brawny and still significantly tannic, but also pleasurable and showed bags of fruit on palate and a long, long finish. Ready for early enjoyment but absolutely no rush. My small stash will stay stashed for another few years (I like ‘em mature).

1986 Ch. Gruaud Larose – also a classic nose with tons of dark fruit and sweet cassis, and huge in the middle with more than mild tannins. Great length, a very good wine in the making, but for other than oenological pedophiles, one to be left alone for several years yet. We nicely bracketed the full range of readiness with these three wines.

1989 Ch. Bastor Lamontagne – I pulled a couple of early maturing Sauternes that had become sidetracked in my cellar and had recently surfaced in a massive dung-out and reorganisation. This was soft, simple and had a varnish nose. RIP.

1989 Ch. D’Arche – this wine had shown quite well for me recently but this bottle wasn’t as good. A rancio nose I hadn’t seen in the last bottle and an interesting middle. Decent botrytis and much better than the Bastor.
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Jim Grow

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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Jim Grow » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:21 pm

Nice notes Bill and I'll leave my few remaining 86 Gruaud Larose alone for a few years. The big question is; do you really have dung in your cellar. This could account for that barnyard nose and palate in some of your reds?
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Bill Spohn » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:54 pm

Jim Grow wrote:Nice notes Bill and I'll leave my few remaining 86 Gruaud Larose alone for a few years. The big question is; do you really have dung in your cellar. This could account for that barnyard nose and palate in some of your reds?


No, all the dung was out in the stable (which was knocked down a decade ago to make room for more garden), although one could be excused for thinking so, especially when I open some of those nice funky Rhones....
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Matt Richman

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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Matt Richman » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:55 pm

At a 1986 horizontal a few years ago the Talbot was my WOTN. (Actually Yquem, but I don't count that)

The group voted for Lafite followed by Talbot, Gruaud, and Lynch in that order.

Here are my notes:


* 1986 Château L'Arrosée - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, St. Émilion Grand Cru
Warm, sweet, smooth. Not a lot of depth, but smooth & silky.
B+
* 1986 Vieux Château Certan - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, Pomerol
Fruit is nice, a little mushroomy. Smooth, very pleasant. A little funky. Light core.
B+
* 1986 Château Haut-Brion - France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan
Concentrated fruit. Powerful & strong. Muscular. Lots of acidic tannins. Some black tar, leather. Still young. I seem to have liked this wine a lot more than some others around the table.
A--
* 1986 Château Pape Clément - France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan
Smooth, silky. Dark core. Not as concentrated or structured as Haut Brion, but sweeter. Very nice.
B+/A-

* 1986 Château Margaux - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
Thick, dense, dark, silky. Tobacco. Port-thick, tannic, tight. Potential to get a better.
A-
* 1986 Château Palmer - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
Sweet, dense, smooth. Dark core with some herbs. Very nice.
A-
* 1986 Château Rausan-Ségla (Rauzan-Ségla) - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
Sweet fruit, some tight tiny tannins, some high toned fruit. Juicy sweet core fruit.
A-

* 1986 Château Lynch-Bages - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac
Big & Thick. Tobacco, some tannic structure, some herbs.
B++
* 1986 Château Pichon-Longueville Baron - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac
Thick & dark with a sweet core. Smooth. Sweet herbs (clove?). Viscous. More new world style perhaps, especially on nose. Bit like the 2001, but tamer.
B+
* 1986 Château Lafite Rothschild - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac
Thick, concentrated, not sweet. Acidic tannins. Nicely herbal, lots going on. Dark, young with a solid core.
A-
* 1986 Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac
Nice smooth fruit. Dark core, some herbs. Speculation that this was very slightly corked. I think I agree, but thought it was pretty good anyway.
B+

* 1986 Château Talbot - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien
Nice sweetness, smooth, broad. Doesn’t have the dark note of the other wines. Delicious.
A/A-
* 1986 Château Gruaud Larose - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien
Nice herb and fruit with tannic edge. Not as concentrated as some of the others, but very nice.
B+/A-
* 1986 Château Cos d'Estournel - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Estèphe
Sweet note, tannic bite. A little light.
B+

* 1986 Château Lagrange St. Julien - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien
Sweet, smooth, lots of structure. Very nice. Dense. Young.
B++
* 1986 Château Beychevelle - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien
Dark, tobacco, tar. Tannic. A bit musty/funky. Sweet herbs.
B/B+
* 1986 Château Léoville Barton - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien
Not as dense as some others, with lots of acidic tannin. Herbal, a bit reedy, light.
B

* 1986 Château d'Yquem - France, Bordeaux, Sauternais, Sauternes
Carmel, burnt sugar, smooth. Awesome. Very very long finish.
A

Final vote tally for WOTN (1st, 2nd, 3rd place votes)

Lafite (26 pts)
Talbot (15)
Gruaud (8)
Lynch Bages (6)
Rausan Segla (5)
Margaux (5)
Palmer (1)
Leoville Barton (1)
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Tom Troiano » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:16 pm

I find it amazing that you still see many 1986 Bordeaux TNs that talk about the wines being tannic and not showing much fruit. Is this vintage ever going to live up to all the Parker-hype or is it another '75?

(for those that are new '75 was a fairly tannic vintage with lots of promise but after 20 years many of the "best" had lost what fruit they had and dried out leaving the tannins to remain. Some tasted dirty and badly made which some have argued was due to poor sanitation and old/dirty infected oak)

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Bill Spohn

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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Bill Spohn » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:34 pm

Tom Troiano wrote:I find it amazing that you still see many 1986 Bordeaux TNs that talk about the wines being tannic and not showing much fruit. Is this vintage ever going to live up to all the Parker-hype or is it another '75?


Actually, I've been surprised at how forward some of them are starting to be, as I was expecting more of the 1975 sort of experience. They are not as hard as the 75s and they have better fruit, generally. Some are starting to drink well and the ones that take a long time are well worth waiting for! I have more than 20 different 1986s as I saw it being a classic (which also entails long lived) vintage - as it is proving to be.

Look at the wondrous trio - 1988, 1989 and 1990. Most will go for 1990 with forward fruit, some will also enjoy the 1989, but even fewer the more classic 1988. I like them all, and that includes the less effusive 1988s!
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Dale Williams » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:56 pm

I've run into a few Right Banks and a few lesser growths or Cru Bourgeois that seemed to be losing the fight, but overall I think most of the better Left Banks are emerging and turning into beautiful wines. They'll always be a tad brawny, never elegant roast chicken wines, but I'm very happy to own '86 Gruaud, Talbot, Sociando, Rauzan Segla, and even some lesser wines like Meyney. At same tasting as Matt, the Talbot was delicious, and and just trailing the Lafite for WOTN. Though the Margaux certainly is going to be lovely someday
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Matt Richman » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:51 pm

Actually, I was surprised that they weren't more tannic. I don't think it's a '75 situation, although a far cry from 1990.
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Bill Spohn » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:07 pm

Matt Richman wrote:Actually, I was surprised that they weren't more tannic. I don't think it's a '75 situation, although a far cry from 1990.


I found the Gruaud very tannic and closed. But the tannins in 1986 aren't the tannins of 1975 - they are 'riper' rather than 'green', if that means anything to you, and the higher fruit level somewhat mutes the bite of the tannins as well, so they can be drunk earlier than was possible (or rather pleasurable) with the 1975s.
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Matt Richman » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:03 pm

When exactly did the '75's become drinkable?
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Bill Spohn » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:11 pm

Matt Richman wrote:When exactly did the '75's become drinkable?



Over a long period. Some have been drinking for a decade - the Branaire Ducru and Beychevelle, for instance. Others. like the Las Cases, only in the last couple f years. Some will never lose enough tannin while retaining sufficient fruit. I hope that the Gruaud isn't among them.
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Mark Head » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:35 pm

First post. I've been a lurker for the last couple of years; however, had to chime in on the 86's. We had 1986 Beychevelle tonight with a nice prime rib. The wine was smooth and velvety with plenty of raison/plum-like fruit. Just a touch of tannin. While not particularly complex, it is drinking well right now. I doubt it will improve with age at this point. Drink up those 86's.
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Bill Spohn » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:07 pm

Mark Head wrote:First post. I've been a lurker for the last couple of years; however, had to chime in on the 86's. We had 1986 Beychevelle tonight with a nice prime rib. The wine was smooth and velvety with plenty of raison/plum-like fruit. Just a touch of tannin. While not particularly complex, it is drinking well right now. I doubt it will improve with age at this point. Drink up those 86's.


First, welcome to posting.

Second, you can't take one of the softer 86s and then generaize to all of them saying they should be drunk up. They shouldn't. The vintage should be drunk selectively, starting with some of the more forward wines like the Beychevelle. Many are still nowhere peak, however.
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Re: TN: 1986 Bordeaux

by Mark Head » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:04 am

Bill Spohn wrote:
Mark Head wrote:First post. I've been a lurker for the last couple of years; however, had to chime in on the 86's. We had 1986 Beychevelle tonight with a nice prime rib. The wine was smooth and velvety with plenty of raison/plum-like fruit. Just a touch of tannin. While not particularly complex, it is drinking well right now. I doubt it will improve with age at this point. Drink up those 86's.


First, welcome to posting.

Second, you can't take one of the softer 86s and then generaize to all of them saying they should be drunk up. They shouldn't. The vintage should be drunk selectively, starting with some of the more forward wines like the Beychevelle. Many are still nowhere peak, however.



My comments are restricted to 86 Beychevelle alone. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

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