The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

I find Gouais !!

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3812

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

I find Gouais !!

by Peter May » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:49 pm

An almost extinct white grape variety, Gouais, has recently been causing excitement among wine geeks. DNA testing has revealed that Gouais, has a most important role as a parent of many of today’s famous varieties.

It has been said that Gouais has an affinity for Pinot Noir; cross pollination of Gouais and Pinot Noir has at various times in the past produced Beaujolais’s Gamay and the two white Burgundy vines Chardonnay and Aligote as well as half a dozen lesser known varieties

But Gouais didn’t remain true to Pinot Noir. It crossed with other varieties to create Riesling and Columbard, as well as the rare Champagne grape Petite Meslier.

According to Wikipedia, Gouais is now extinct in France except for examples in a vine bank in Montpelier and can be found growing only in Switzerland.

To that add Australia, as I found to my surprise when I called into Chambers Rosewood Vineyards in Rutherglen, Victoria. Rutherglen as a whole, and Chambers in particular, are famed for fortified wines, both for sherry and port style and especially for luscious dessert wines made from Muscadelle and Muscat.

Chambers also make table wines from familiar varieties as well as lesser known ones such as Chasselas, Mondeuse, Cinsault and Durif. And they make a varietal Gouais. “We have two rows of Gouais,” said winemaker and six-generation owner Stephen Chambers. “We received a whole load of different varieties from France in the 1800’s,” he told me. “They were all planted out and we kept growing those that did well here.”

I tasted the 2002 and 2003 Chambers Gouais, the first at the winery, the latter with dinner.
gouais1.jpg


Chambers Rosewood Vineyards
Gouais 2003

Medium dark yellow colour,

Subdued nose with a hint of lime-peel.

Lychees, quite acidic and some tannins. There’s an oily mouth feel, and it has a clean crisp dry finish. I was concerned about the colour and though it was possibly a bit oxidised.

Knowing the ties to both Riesling & Chardonnay, one can make a connection - the mouthfeel of Riesling with some Chardonnay character.

It is not possible to make a generalisation about a grape variety by tasting just one example wine. This particular example was a quite simple, crisp dry wine and not one I’d go back for. I would however love to taste a more recent vintage from this producer and any other examples.
no avatar
User

Oswaldo Costa

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1902

Joined

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:30 am

Location

São Paulo, Brazil

Re: I find Gouais !!

by Oswaldo Costa » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:52 pm

Wow, that reads like casting your rod and pulling in a celacanth. Fascinating!
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: I find Gouais !!

by Hoke » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:59 pm

Congratulations, Peter.

Doubly so. Once for the excitement of finding such a grape. Twice for hanging out with the Chambers folks on property. Great people, wonderful stickies.
no avatar
User

Mark Lipton

Rank

Oenochemist

Posts

4285

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Location

Indiana

Re: I find Gouais !!

by Mark Lipton » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:11 pm

Fascinating, Peter. I too have wondered about Gouais since reading of its illustrious offspring. And now I have yet another reason to venture out to Oz, as if I needed another...

Mark Lipton
no avatar
User

SteveEdmunds

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

985

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:05 am

Location

Berkeley, CA

Re: I find Gouais !!

by SteveEdmunds » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:06 pm

Oswald; I was intrigued enough with your reply that I googled "celacanth," only to discover the correct name to be coelecanth, an ancient "fish" that has extraordinarily sensitive eyesight, and gives birth to live offspring, lives to be quite old, and does not reach sexual maturity until 20 years of age. (Otherwise known as a "throwback." :^) )Thought to be extinct since the Cretaceous era, until sometime in the 1930's. Sounds even better than Gouais!
I don't know just how I'm supposed to play this scene, but I ain't afraid to learn...
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34368

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: I find Gouais !!

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:15 pm

Steve,

Have you ever seen a picture of a coelecanth? :shock:
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

SteveEdmunds

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

985

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:05 am

Location

Berkeley, CA

Re: I find Gouais !!

by SteveEdmunds » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:04 pm

Si, si... very interesting...if i were a squid and I saw a coelecanth I'd say "GOUAIS!!!!" :mrgreen:
I don't know just how I'm supposed to play this scene, but I ain't afraid to learn...
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34368

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: I find Gouais !!

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:10 pm

Steve Edmunds wrote:Si, si... very interesting...if i were a squid and I saw a coelecanth I'd say "GOUAIS!!!!" :mrgreen:


Or more likely d'OH!!
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Oswaldo Costa

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1902

Joined

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:30 am

Location

São Paulo, Brazil

Re: I find Gouais !!

by Oswaldo Costa » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:35 am

You guys!
You goys!
You gouais!
Last edited by Oswaldo Costa on Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

7894

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:01 pm

Huh....

by TomHill » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:23 am

Steve Edmunds wrote:Oswald; I was intrigued enough with your reply that I googled "celacanth," only to discover the correct name to be coelecanth, an ancient "fish" that has extraordinarily sensitive eyesight, and gives birth to live offspring, lives to be quite old, and does not reach sexual maturity until 20 years of age. (Otherwise known as a "throwback." :^) )Thought to be extinct since the Cretaceous era, until sometime in the 1930's. Sounds even better than Gouais!


Steve,
I'd guess any species that gives birth to dead offspring would soom be extinct.

As for "sexual maturity until 20"......I'm gonna...bite...my..tongue!!
Tom
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34368

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Huh....

by David M. Bueker » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:30 am

TomHill wrote:
As for "sexual maturity until 20"......I'm gonna...bite...my..tongue!!

Covert...paging Covert... :wink: :twisted:
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Oswaldo Costa

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1902

Joined

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:30 am

Location

São Paulo, Brazil

Re: Huh....

by Oswaldo Costa » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:50 am

TomHill wrote:I'd guess any species that gives birth to dead offspring would soom be extinct.


I think he means no eggs! It is viviparous rather than oviparous...
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

7894

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:01 pm

Re: Huh....

by TomHill » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:53 am

Oswaldo Costa wrote:I think he means no eggs! It is viviparous rather than oviparous...



OK...guess that makes sense. The statement just struck me as a bit odd.
Tom
no avatar
User

SteveEdmunds

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

985

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:05 am

Location

Berkeley, CA

Re: Huh....

by SteveEdmunds » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:09 pm

TomHill wrote:
Oswaldo Costa wrote:I think he means no eggs! It is viviparous rather than oviparous...



OK...guess that makes sense. The statement just struck me as a bit odd.
Tom

That's OK, Tom; I'll bite MY tongue, this time... :D
I don't know just how I'm supposed to play this scene, but I ain't afraid to learn...
no avatar
User

MikeH

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1168

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:07 pm

Location

Cincinnati

Re: Huh....

by MikeH » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:30 pm

TomHill wrote:
Oswaldo Costa wrote:I think he means no eggs! It is viviparous rather than oviparous...



OK...guess that makes sense. The statement just struck me as a bit odd.
Tom


IIRC, giving birth to live offspring as opposed to eggs is an identifying characteristic of a mammal although there are a very few mammals that lay eggs. The definitive trait of a mammal is mammary glands.
Cheers!
Mike
no avatar
User

Mark Lipton

Rank

Oenochemist

Posts

4285

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Location

Indiana

Re: Huh....

by Mark Lipton » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:54 pm

MikeH wrote:
IIRC, giving birth to live offspring as opposed to eggs is an identifying characteristic of a mammal although there are a very few mammals that lay eggs. The definitive trait of a mammal is mammary glands.


Mike,
Although most viviparous animals are mammals, there are examples of viviparous lizards and salamanders and there are lots of viviparous fish (including many species of shark). Better to stick with the mammary glands.

Mark Lipton
no avatar
User

MikeH

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1168

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:07 pm

Location

Cincinnati

Re: Huh....

by MikeH » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:07 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:
MikeH wrote:
IIRC, giving birth to live offspring as opposed to eggs is an identifying characteristic of a mammal although there are a very few mammals that lay eggs. The definitive trait of a mammal is mammary glands.


Mike,
Although most viviparous animals are mammals, there are examples of viviparous lizards and salamanders and there are lots of viviparous fish (including many species of shark). Better to stick with the mammary glands.

Mark Lipton


I did not know there were any non-mammalian animals that gave birth to live offspring. Interesting.
Cheers!
Mike
no avatar
User

Sue Courtney

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1809

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:33 pm

Location

Auckland, NZ

Re: I find Gouais !!

by Sue Courtney » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:45 pm

Peter May wrote:According to Wikipedia, Gouais is now extinct in France except for examples in a vine bank in Montpelier and can be found growing only in Switzerland.
To that add Australia, as I found to my surprise when I called into Chambers Rosewood Vineyards in Rutherglen, Victoria.


I remember tasting Chambers Gouais at Chambers Winery in 2002. I have to say it was a very bland and non-descript wine. It had nothing going for it except for alcohol and the texture provided by the alcohol - probably why it hasn't been a runaway success in the wine world.

BTW - did you see an ethanol tanker parked up at the winery? It was there delivering it's fortifying cargo the time i was there.

Cheers,
Sue
no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

7894

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:01 pm

Could Be...

by TomHill » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:45 pm

Sue Courtney wrote:I remember tasting Chambers Gouais at Chambers Winery in 2002. I have to say it was a very bland and non-descript wine. It had nothing going for it except for alcohol and the texture provided by the alcohol - probably why it hasn't been a runaway success in the wine world.
Cheers,
Sue



Could be that some varieties are extinct for a reason?? Is the world a better plave for it?? Who knows?
That being said...maybe the rightful/best home for Gouais is WillametteVlly...or NevadaCnty...or Lower
Mimbres Vlly of NewMexico??
Tom
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3812

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: I find Gouais !!

by Peter May » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:40 pm

I've been offline for the past few days and just login now to see 18 messages in my Gouais thread, Wow I thought, lots of interest here in obscure varieties.

Should have known better :roll:

Sue, tend to agree with you, but its hard to judge a variety on one sample. There's bad examples made of all varieties at one tine or anaother and if thats the ony taste you ever get ...

Tom, the story is that Burgundian peasants grew Gouais on their plots while in the next field nobility grew Pinot Noir, hence the number of crossings and, because of its peasant heritage, also the later demise of the variety when edicts came in to regulate varieties growing in the region.
no avatar
User

Oswaldo Costa

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1902

Joined

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:30 am

Location

São Paulo, Brazil

Re: I find Gouais !!

by Oswaldo Costa » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:07 am

Peter May wrote:Should have known better :roll:


Sorry, my fault! :oops:
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot, Google IPMatch and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign