2000 Chateau Margaux??????

How criminal, how venal would it be for a friend to open one bottle of 2000 Chateau Margaux? He asked me if the group last night if we would enjoy trying it. Are we cruising for a completely shut-down disappointment? He unerstand the need for decanting.

He has more than one bottle, and he doubts that he will be waiting 30 years (this friend is 63).

I told him I would pose the question!

[David M. Bueker]

It's criminal all right, but his crime not yours. Go for it!

Tell him that he should definately NOT open it until I get there.

I opened a 1983 CH. Margaux after 20 years and it was sublime. If the 2000 is going to be opened with you or without you, make sure it's with you. But if it dosen't have to be opened, I'd hang on to it. It really depends on if it could be properly stored. I see you mentioned his age. 63 is problematic. I say go for it and enjoy.)

I opened a 1983 CH. Margaux after 20 years and it was sublime.

Good to hear. We have a bottle in the cellar that I gave to Jean as her Ph. D. graduation present. We've recently talked of finding an occasion to open it.

Mark Lipton

Not at all criminal. In fact, not even a misdemeanor. Despite that the wine is surely young now, even in its late infancy, it can be thoroughly enjoyed for both what it is and the peek that it will give into its future. My most recent tasting note
follows.

Best
Rogov

Chateau Margaux, Margaux, 2000: I opened my barrel tasting by writing: “Now this, by heaven, is what great wine is supposed to be all about! The 1990 was superb, the 1995 was superb and so is this one”. The rest of my note holds as well for this wine is truly majestic in body and tannins, with a bouquet of flowers, cassis, berries, smoke, spices, new oak, and flavors that linger on and on, seemingly without end. A wine that shows finesse, richness and astonishing depth. Best drinking from 2008 or 2010 and then well until the onset of the 22nd century! Score 100. (Tasted 7 Jun 2003)

Thanks, guys! (and Rogov for the note). Cellartracker is actually somewhat encouraging...one person gave the 2000 (tasted in 2008) a perfect "100" score. So...if he is still willing...he will go for it!

I opened a 1983 CH. Margaux after 20 years and it was sublime.

Good to hear. We have a bottle in the cellar that I gave to Jean as her Ph. D. graduation present. We've recently talked of finding an occasion to open it.

Mark Lipton

I think the occasion is self-defined - by opening it. Maybe you should design a meal/event around it.
A photo of a quartet of '83 Ch. Margaux bottles is my PC's wallpaper at work

I have been so disappointed in opening great bottles before their time, that I wouldn’t do it anymore. But I won’t begrudge anybody who does. Different strokes for different folks.

It is interesting (to me, anyway) that the metaphor is infanticide, rather than having sex with a minor, meaning that anybody who would do it is more like a killer, than a graduate from Brigham Young – as in, “I don’t care how you bring ‘em, as long as…”, which would suggest some sort of living pleasure, at least, regardless of how perverted.

Only slightly less evil than drinking a 2000 would be a 1995, which I am getting close to doing. Has anybody recently drunk one of those?

[David M. Bueker]

Covert - it's undoubtedly related to the expressions like "kill a bottle" or "dead soldier" (referring to the empty bottle), so that a wine consumed too early gets the infanticide label.

Covert - it's undoubtedly related to the expressions like "kill a bottle" or "dead soldier" (referring to the empty bottle), so that a wine consumed too early gets the infanticide label.

I'm not so sure. For example, from The Los Angeles Times: "Being born to young, poorly educated, unmarried girls, it turns out, gives babies the highest risk of being murdered in their first year of life." Do you think there could be a higher correlation of drinking great wines early among young people than older?

[David M. Bueker]

Covert - that's only because younger people have younger wines. They bought them more recently. There's no mystery there.

I wouldn't. I think it's insanity to drink wines of this caliber at that age (that goes for the 95 too). But if he has plenty of bottles I guess it's his choice.

I tasted the 2000 a year ago. There is some pleasure to be had, but clearly a fraction of what it will be in the future. 73 is not really that old these days...

I also had the 1995 at the time. Pretty much the same goes for that. Clearly not ready, but also not completely closed.

I wouldn't. I think it's insanity to drink wines of this caliber at that age (that goes for the 95 too). But if he has plenty of bottles I guess it's his choice.

I tasted the 2000 a year ago. There is some pleasure to be had, but clearly a fraction of what it will be in the future. 73 is not really that old these days...

I also had the 1995 at the time. Pretty much the same goes for that. Clearly not ready, but also not completely closed.

Good! Thanks! You brought me to my senses. I will hold off on the '95. I don't think just being rich or having a lot of bottles is a good enough reason to be rapacious. Just because someone has, say, five kids, doesn't mean he should have more license to mistreat one of them.

Respectfully disagreed. If one has the ability (and obviously the wherewithall and thus the supply on hand), one of the great pleasures of wines is in tasting them from their youth (oyez, even in their infancy) to their adolescence, then on to maturity. Following a wine is much like following a person in his/her development, each developmental stage having its charms. More perhaps of a European attitude than an American one but as has been said "different strokes".

Best
Rogov

More perhaps of a European attitude than an American one but as has been said "different strokes".

Best
Rogov

Why do you think that is a European attitude?

I thought the stereotype was that Americans open their wines 'too young' because they don't have the patience/cellaring capacity to wait.

Rahsaan, Hi....

I think it more European because at many dinners, especially in France and Italy, it is customary and considered a pleasure to open a meal with a quite young wine and only then to go on to a more mature one. Perhaps something akin to the issue of decanting - whereas Americans and the English seem to take pleasure in decanting, many Europeans prefer to enjoy following their wines as they open in the glass.

Also perhaps related to the idea that the European meal, including those taken at home, are given a good deal more time than in the USA. The idea of setting a glass of wine out, sipping as it is first poured, following it over a two hour period, perhaps even side by side with a second or third wine.....

I may be generalizing somewhat, but generalizations have their place (e.g. Charles Dicken's to the effect that "there is not a window in all of Paris that closes correctly).

Best
Rogov

Also perhaps related to the idea that the European meal, including those taken at home, are given a good deal more time than in the USA. The idea of setting a glass of wine out, sipping as it is first poured, following it over a two hour period, perhaps even side by side with a second or third wine.....

Sounds like fun. I clearly have the wrong European friends because I see more of this in the States!

But, generalizations and individual experiences are always tricky.

Still, I see what you are saying.

If one has the ability (and obviously the wherewithall and thus the supply on hand), one of the great pleasures of wines is in tasting them from their youth (oyez, even in their infancy) to their adolescence, then on to maturity.

While I don't disagree with this, I do think some sort of respect has to be paid to a wine like 2000 Margaux. I just feel like I'm doing it a dishonor by opening it too early. Even if you own plenty of it, there is such a thing as conspicuous consumption. At some point it just becomes gross.

But that is not to say that this fellow shouldn't open his wine. It is an interesting learning experience too. And I have participated in my share of opening wine early (obviously, since I'm quoting my tasting notes).

Not at all conspicuous consumption. I will, for example, often open such young wines when at home just en famille if that is the wine that beckons to me at the moment. Something akin perhaps to visiting the attelier of a sculptor and following his/her work over time to see if first as a barely shaped lump of clay, then as it takes its embryonic form, and then on as it takes on life and personality, and finally, to enjoy it at its best over a period of years. Among the reasons that barrel-tastings are both challenging and rewarding is to see how your earliest impressions, sometimes of wines barely in formation, will hold up to your predictions over the years.

Conspicuous consumption in this case only if one does it to "make an impression" on somebody else. One of the great advantages perhaps of being a critic is the ability to taste wines at many stages of their development.

Best
Rogov

Yeah, but you wouldn't take the lump of clay away from the artist and put it in your home.

[David M. Bueker]

It's not even close to conspicuous consumption. Now a vertical of Margaux 2000-2005 right now probably would be.

I think it more European because at many dinners, especially in France and Italy, it is customary and considered a pleasure to open a meal with a quite young wine and only then to go on to a more mature one.

As a matter of fact, I very much enjoyed several bottles of 2000 Bordeaux while in Paris in 2003. But none were Margaux; the ones we drank cost around $40, and shared the pleasure of great fresh fruit. I don't think you are talking about opening a 2005 Latour and then maybe a 2004 Lafite before settling down to some mature wines, are you?

To another of your points, I agree with the fun of tracing evolution. In fact I bought two cases of 1995 Malescot and open one a year to see how it is doing. Malescot is a couple of stone throws from Margaux, but I don't pretend that it will tell me much about how the Margaux is doing from year to year. But I like to kind of pretend it is some sort of surrogate for hinting at when I should open a 1995 Margaux.

As both of us have said, different strokes. I still just personally think it would be crime even for Bernie Madoff, before he got caught, when he had billions of dollars, to have opened a 2000 or a 2005 Margaux. There are plenty of people in Africa (not in every country, even I know that Africa is a continent) who think it is fine to have sex with their ten-year-old daughters. Different strokes.

Well, if I were Brian I'd certainly take the opportunity!
That said, I'm pretty much with Matt. I think it's a shame to open a bottle that gains so much from aging as a very young wine. However, I do think that it is interesting to see a young wine in the company of it's peers from other vintages. I'll contribute a very young classed Bdx to a vertical, though I wouldn't generally open it for dinner.

There are plenty of people in Africa (not in every country, even I know that Africa is a continent) who think it is fine to have sex with their ten-year-old daughters. Different strokes.

I hate to even go here, but are you saying there are cultures in Africa that find intrafamial incest acceptable? Can you name one, or is this just an assumption of your own?